H. Freeman and HSF Suit Questions

2062 Views 36 Replies 12 Participants Last post by smmrfld, 3 mo ago

Srogue

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

2

Hello, first-time poster, but I came across the site while doing some research on a couple of suits I picked up recently. One is a Hart Schaffner Marx originally from Dillards and the other, which I thought at first was a Hickey Freeman, I think is not, and is instead from a make named H. Freeman. I will include a pic of the label. Not know hardly anything about suits, would you guys be able to tell me which one is the better suit? I can take pictures if needed. I was wanting to know because I need to have them altered slightly, whichever one I go with, and want to choose the better quality suit. I don't know if either is fused, 1/2 Canvased, etc. Both suits were a steal though, $13.00 each, so it was worth a gamble. Oh, and I need this for a wedding of a friend that is coming up in a month and a half. The HSF suit has a pair of matching pants, but for the H. Freeman suit, I would have to buy some pants. Any insight, guidance, and help are appreciated! The two pics included are the logo of the H. Freeman suit and a closeup of the material.

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Woofa

· #2 · 3 mo ago

This is a tough question to answer with so many levels made by these makers. It is my impression that Gold Trumpeter suits made by HSM are half canvassed and a good value workhorse suit. They usually have a label noting them as GT. All other levels are less than half canvassed.
Now HF is even tougher. I think that Mainline is fully canvassed while H Freeman is half canvassed. More importantly is how they fit. My advice is to get us pictures of you wearing both. Multiple angles in good light wearing a dress shirt and shoes if you can. people here can give you good advice as to which is worth keeping, if either.

Reactions: 2

Peak and Pine

· #3 · 3 mo ago

Hickey Freeman and H. Freeman are not the same thing. They are two separate old line companies. H. Freeman until recently was known as H. Freeman & Sons. They are/were quality pieces, comparable to Hickey Freeman, if not better. But scrap the one you have, it's not a suit. Go with the HSM.

Reactions: 4

Woofa

· #4 · 3 mo ago

Thanks pine I did not know that.

Reactions: 1

Srogue

Discussion Starter · #5 · 3 mo ago

Thank both of you for your responses. I do believe, (with my very limited knowledge of suits) that the H. Freeman does feel "nicer" in quality. However, Pine, your statement to scrap it hurts. I know it is not a suit, because it doesn't have matching pants, however, I know there has to be a store somewhere that has the same pattern or color (If fact I saw a store in a nearby city that had pictures (SJ Haggard) in OKC that had a picture of a kid wearing a suit that looked exactly the same as my H. Freeman, so I know they have to exist. I know it would be a time sink to try and track down a pair of pants, but unfortunately, that is what I have more of, more time, and less money at this moment and if I could spare having to throw the jacket out (maybe instead I could wear it with something else, like jeans or other contrasting pants as a casual outfit?) I just hate throwing stuff away!

Anyway, the whole reason I even went down this route, instead of buying a legit, nice suit, is I need it for my friend's wedding (I am a guest) and don't want to sink 600-1000 into a suit yet because I am in the midst of losing weight. I have lost a ton of weight over the past year, around 100 pounds, and I have 20 pounds more to go until I am at my goal weight. I don't want to get measured and have a suit made with 20 pounds left to lose, but needed the jacket for the wedding, so that was my dilemma. Someday, hopefully in the next 6 months, I will go and get a true legit suit, which I do look forward to and will treat as a goal for becoming a much healthier weight. Anyway, thanks for your information guys. I will do what you suggested Woofa and give a few pics of both jackets and see what you think. I'll post later. Thanks again.

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Peak and Pine

· #6 · 3 mo ago

2

I admire your tenacity, truly, but I think the chance of finding matching pants may be less than zero. Try though. Or try this, go up from your $13 budget to $30 and get something like I've pictured below, currently being sold on eBay. H. Freeman is good stuff, I've had a few through the years.

(This picture, just an example, I have no idea your size except that it must be far less than it used to after losing a hundred pounds. Congrats on that.)

Shirt Coat Dress shirt Product Tie

Handwriting Sleeve Grey Font Chalk

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Reactions: 3

triklops55

· #7 · 3 mo ago

Srogue said:
Thank both of you for your responses. I do believe, (with my very limited knowledge of suits) that the H. Freeman does feel "nicer" in quality. However, Pine, your statement to scrap it hurts. I know it is not a suit, because it doesn't have matching pants, however, I know there has to be a store somewhere that has the same pattern or color (If fact I saw a store in a nearby city that had pictures (SJ Haggard) in OKC that had a picture of a kid wearing a suit that looked exactly the same as my H. Freeman, so I know they have to exist. I know it would be a time sink to try and track down a pair of pants, but unfortunately, that is what I have more of, more time, and less money at this moment and if I could spare having to throw the jacket out (maybe instead I could wear it with something else, like jeans or other contrasting pants as a casual outfit?) I just hate throwing stuff away!

Anyway, the whole reason I even went down this route, instead of buying a legit, nice suit, is I need it for my friend's wedding (I am a guest) and don't want to sink 600-1000 into a suit yet because I am in the midst of losing weight. I have lost a ton of weight over the past year, around 100 pounds, and I have 20 pounds more to go until I am at my goal weight. I don't want to get measured and have a suit made with 20 pounds left to lose, but needed the jacket for the wedding, so that was my dilemma. Someday, hopefully in the next 6 months, I will go and get a true legit suit, which I do look forward to and will treat as a goal for becoming a much healthier weight. Anyway, thanks for your information guys. I will do what you suggested Woofa and give a few pics of both jackets and see what you think. I'll post later. Thanks again.

I agree with Peak. Finding the matching trousers for a suit jacket is impossible. Sure, the fabrics may look similar at first glance but there will be noticeable differences, such as the type of the fabric, variations in color and pattern. In fact, you could take two suits from the same maker of the same type of fabric and pattern and they will still not be a perfect match. A suit is a suit because the jacket and pants are made of the exact same fabric.
I understand your concern about spending too much only to not have the suit fit within a few months, but you can get a used suit at a super low cost if you know your measurements and do a little shopping around.

Reactions: 2

some_dude

· #8 · 3 mo ago

Unfortunately, the H. Freeman article you got is not a "suit" at all-- it is an odd jacket. As others have pointed out, a suit consists of a jacket and pants made from the same fabric. The reason the jacket was probably available for $13 is because the matching pants wore out-- in the old days, men used to get two pairs of pants with a single jacket for just this reason.

I had to recently toss an H. Freeman jacket that was very similar to yours (mine was made to measure for me) for just this reason-- the pants wore out, and the jacket really wasn't suitable for wearing on its own.

If you like the HSF suit, then go for it, or keep looking. Good luck!

Reactions: 2

Srogue

Discussion Starter · #9 · 3 mo ago

Peak and Pine said:
I admire your tenacity, truly, but I think the chance of finding matching pants may be less than zero. Try though. Or try this, go up from your $13 budget to $30 and get something like I've pictured below, currently being sold on eBay. H. Freeman is good stuff, I've had a few through the years.

(This picture, just an example, I have no idea your size except that it must be far less than it used to after losing a hundred pounds. Congrats on that.) View attachment 94877

View attachment 94878

I don't know why I didn't think of Ebay. This is actually a perfect solution, I can certainly swing 30 bucks or thereabouts and I can get a complet suit in decent shape. Thank you! I'll save my time and money trying to hunt down an impossible-to-find matching pants. Time to do some eBay searching.

Reactions: 2

TomKnighton

· #10 · 3 mo ago (Edited)

Srogue said:
I don't know why I didn't think of Ebay. This is actually a perfect solution, I can certainly swing 30 bucks or thereabouts and I can get a complet suit in decent shape. Thank you! I'll save my time and money trying to hunt down an impossible-to-find matching pants. Time to do some eBay searching.

Don't rule out Poshmark, either. I've had a bit better luck finding semi-decent stuff there compared to eBay, though YMMV.

Reactions: 1

CScott&Company

· #11 · 3 mo ago

Srogue said:
Hello, first-time poster, but I came across the site while doing some research on a couple of suits I picked up recently. One is a Hart Schaffner Marx originally from Dillards and the other, which I thought at first was a Hickey Freeman, I think is not, and is instead from a make named H. Freeman. I will include a pic of the label. Not know hardly anything about suits, would you guys be able to tell me which one is the better suit? I can take pictures if needed. I was wanting to know because I need to have them altered slightly, whichever one I go with, and want to choose the better quality suit. I don't know if either is fused, 1/2 Canvased, etc. Both suits were a steal though, $13.00 each, so it was worth a gamble. Oh, and I need this for a wedding of a friend that is coming up in a month and a half. The HSF suit has a pair of matching pants, but for the H. Freeman suit, I would have to buy some pants. Any insight, guidance, and help are appreciated! The two pics included are the logo of the H. Freeman suit and a closeup of the material.

For a number of years I had the opportunity to be involved with the development of H. Freeman made-to-measure program. Based on the label, the coat was produced in the Island Ave. facility before moving production to the English American facility in Westminster, MD. H. Freeman garments were and still are full canvas garments. They are about 80-90% hand tailored. The collar, sleeves, buttonholes, and lining are handsewn. They use a hymo canvas, sewn in by machine. However, this was for consistency in the soft feel.

Hart, Shaffner, & Marx typically were half canvas. However, when production was moved to the Peerless facility in the early 2000, after they were sold. I can not speak to.

Reactions: 3

Peak and Pine

· #12 · 3 mo ago

CScott&Company said:
For a number of years I had the opportunity to be involved with the development of H. Freeman made-to-measure program. Based on the label, the coat was produced in the Island Ave. facility before moving production to the English American facility in Westminster, MD. H. Freeman garments were and still are full canvas garments. They are about 80-90% hand tailored. The collar, sleeves, buttonholes, and lining are handsewn. They use a hymo canvas, sewn in by machine. However, this was for consistency in the soft feel.

Hart, Shaffner, & Marx typically were half canvas. However, when production was moved to the Peerless facility in the early 2000, after they were sold. I can not speak to.

Clarify something for me please. Was I correct in saying that H Freeman is/was H. Freeman & Son of Philadelphia? I have had a couple of their suits through the years, liked them, knew they were full canvas, but don't recall the 80 to 90% handwork that you speak of, or were you talking about just the Made to Measure program?

CScott&Company

· #13 · 3 mo ago

Yes. H.Freeman dropped the “Son” part after they moved from Philadelphia. H. Freeman suits were hand-tailored with exception to the pad stitching in the chest, and naturally the long seams. H. Freeman is owned by the same parent company that owns Oxxford Clothing in Chicago. H. Freeman was tailored to be one level below Oxxford. The garments produced in Philadelphia lived up to that. The fit and feel were far superior to that produced at English American. That are still a good value at $995 to $1595, either readymade or made-to-measure.

Reactions: 2

Peak and Pine

· #14 · 3 mo ago

CScott&Company said:
Yes. H.Freeman dropped the “Son” part after they moved from Philadelphia. H. Freeman suits were hand-tailored with exception to the pad stitching in the chest, and naturally the long seams. H. Freeman is owned by the same parent company that owns Oxxford Clothing in Chicago. H. Freeman was tailored to be one level below Oxxford. The garments produced in Philadelphia lived up to that. The fit and feel were far superior to that produced at English American. That are still a good value at $995 to $1595, either readymade or made-to-measure.

That was fast. Thanks for the corroboration. Did not know the Oxxford connection, interesting. Thanks again.

vonSuess

· #15 · 3 mo ago

"H. Freeman was tailored to be one level below Oxxford."

Of the suits mentioned, Oxxford is the one. I wouldn't recommend used clothing under any circumstances but Oxxford is well worth the price new. Buy it new, buy it to fit and keep it cleaned and pressed for each wearing. If one is to be the best dressed wherever he goes, Oxxford is a good start...

Peak and Pine

· #16 · 3 mo ago

vonSuess said:
I wouldn't recommend used clothing under any circumstances but Oxxford is well worth the price new.

You continue to amaze. The prime reason to buy vintage is because the particular item or the cloth or the style is no longer being made. I tried contacting the 1940s to buy my Dunn & Co. Norfolk, but they didn't respond, so I just had to give up and go to eBay, damn. Read the original post more carefully. The questioner does not have an Oxxford budget. He paid 13 bucks for his jacket and would like to find similar in a related price range. (And on a side note, I will never be old enough to feel comfortable in an Oxxford.)

Reactions: 3

some_dude

· #17 · 3 mo ago

I want to thank you-- I have a number of H. Freeman made to measure suits, and I am really happy with them. I think the last one was 2017.

CScott&Company said:
For a number of years I had the opportunity to be involved with the development of H. Freeman made-to-measure program. Based on the label, the coat was produced in the Island Ave. facility before moving production to the English American facility in Westminster, MD. H. Freeman garments were and still are full canvas garments. They are about 80-90% hand tailored. The collar, sleeves, buttonholes, and lining are handsewn. They use a hymo canvas, sewn in by machine. However, this was for consistency in the soft feel.

Hart, Shaffner, & Marx typically were half canvas. However, when production was moved to the Peerless facility in the early 2000, after they were sold. I can not speak to.

frosejr

· #18 · 3 mo ago

vonSuess said:
I wouldn't recommend used clothing under any circumstances but Oxxford is well worth the price new. Buy it new, buy it to fit and keep it cleaned and pressed for each wearing. If one is to be the best dressed wherever he goes, Oxxford is a good start...

Cleaning and pressing a $4500 suit every time one wears it seems like a really really bad idea.

Reactions: 3

vonSuess

· #19 · 3 mo ago

frosejr said:
Cleaning and pressing a $4500 suit every time one wears it seems like a really really bad idea.

Do you have a source for that? When I was the chemist for one of the large sellers of drycleaning equipment and chemical products we did extensive testing and could find no evidence of extra wear. My own experience bears this out as I wear a suit every day and never seem to wear them out...

some_dude

· #20 · 3 mo ago

Do you dry clean your suits each and every time you wear them?

vonSuess said:
Do you have a source for that? When I was the chemist for one of the large sellers of drycleaning equipment and chemical products we did extensive testing and could find no evidence of extra wear. My own experience bears this out as I wear a suit every day and never seem to wear them out...

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