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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)


What do folks think about this look?

Dinner jacket
Wing collar shirt
Low gorge vest
 

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The skinny suit trend definitely did not start in in this decade. :) The illustrations from 1920s catalogues depict the men as waifish with bigger heads... sort of the effect I'm getting from the picture above.
 

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That is obviously a great look.

The problem in today's world is finding a wing collar that looks like that. I am sure the collar in the picture is a detachable stiff collar, which allows it to stand up tall, with great points. Today's low, floppy wing collars look bad.

Generally, I prefer a cummerbund. I know they are out of fashion, but they are much easier than dealing with a vest. The vest probably goes better with the more formal wing collar though.
 

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That's the thing I do when called to. Still though, as a 20-something in black tie, get mistaken for the help by well-meaning folk with empty glasses.
You should ask them if they see a tray in your hand.
 

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I still think the jacket is a tad small for him...
 

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The low vest is proper for formal and semi-formal wear. The high semi-formal vest is a modern innovation/abomination.
Agreed. I think it's the result of men wearing evening clothes during the day. The formal daywear waistcoats now creep into evening wear.
 

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Generally, I prefer a cummerbund. I know they are out of fashion, but they are much easier than dealing with a vest.
Second time I've read the words "out of fashion" on the forum today. Folks, this is the Trad forum. When things we love go out of fashion, we breath a sigh of relief. The cummerbund is a classic semi-formal look. Dinner jackets and their kit should not be moved by fashion.

The low vest is proper for formal and semi-formal wear. The high semi-formal vest is a modern innovation/abomination.

The picture is striking.
Agreed on all three points, Alan.

JB
 

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That is obviously a great look.

The problem in today's world is finding a wing collar that looks like that. I am sure the collar in the picture is a detachable stiff collar, which allows it to stand up tall, with great points. Today's low, floppy wing collars look bad.

Generally, I prefer a cummerbund. I know they are out of fashion, but they are much easier than dealing with a vest. The vest probably goes better with the more formal wing collar though.
Shouldn't the points of the collar be BEHIND the tie bows? No matter, though. Turn down collar for me, regardless. And a cumberbund. Good to hear they're out of style.

Scott

p.s. Wonder if he has on patent leather pumps or some horrible, awful, terrible "business shoes"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I've seen this look alot lately in alot of vintage photos, if I could find the shirt and vest I'd do it.
 

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Shouldn't the points of the collar be BEHIND the tie bows? No matter, though. Turn down collar for me, regardless. And a cumberbund. Good to hear they're out of style.

Scott

p.s. Wonder if he has on patent leather pumps or some horrible, awful, terrible "business shoes"?
The points on a wing collar can go either in front or behind the tie. It is personal preference. I would guess that it is harder to tuck a detachable collar's wings behind the tie.

And just to be pedantic, I wrote that cummerbunds seem to be out of "fashion" not "style." Fashion comes and goes, style does not.

I think it could be argued that fashions within Trad change, but that is a post for another day. Even trad items cycle in and out.

I was actually thinking of the modern trend of men wearing no cummerbund or vest, which I think looks very bad and incomplete.
 

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The points on a wing collar can go either in front or behind the tie. It is personal preference.
I too have noticed, in older pictures and drawings, that the points can go either in front or behind. Flusser writes that the points must go behind, and treats this as a rule rather than a preference. Others have picked up on Flusser's view, but the historical record contradicts him to the extent he's trying to present an open-and-shut case.
 

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I still think the jacket is a tad small for him...
That is possible, but I think the coat is cut differently than a modern one. I have a dinner jacket made in 1926 that fits me very well and looks similar to this one. The shoulder measurement is quite a bit narrower than a modern jacket in my size. The armholes are inboard and small, providing notable freedom of movement. My shoulders extend into the sleeveheads whereas in a modern jacket the coat's shoulders often extend past my own. I like the look as well as the freedom of movement but I can see it taking some getting used to if one is more accustomed to extended shoulders as worn by Cary Grant.

This kind of shoulder will obviously not be popular with those wishing the jacket to enhance their natural shoulder width.

NB I realize that one can have a smaller armhole along with a slightly extended shouder and have much better freedom of movement than a modern RTW jacket; moving the armhole inboard as well does add a little extra though.
 

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Oh, I know armholes from then are really fitted. I have a full dress coat that has to be at least from the '40s with really small armholes. Admittedly, I got it as a costume item because there are no matching trousers unfortunately.

What I'm talking more about is how the jacket is so fitted that it makes his head appear large. While that may have been "in," I don't think it does many favours for his physique.
 

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I think the whole look is great. I think the jacket fits him well - I hate floppy jackets. Make mine trim. I also much prefer the idea of a vest to to a cummerbund, and this low cut example is very cool IMO. FWIW I don't mind the modern look that lacks both cummerbund and vest, either. I think it looks clean and sleek. The key is having a nice clean waistband on the trousers. Preferably grosgrain.
 
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