Of these three fabric sources, which one is the best all around? I also know that Oxxford gets it's fabrics from all three of these sources for their suits, tuxedos, sports jackets, dinner jackets, dress pants, dinner (or formal dress) pants, odd vests, dinner (or formal odd) vests, overcoats and dinner (or formal) overcoats. The Holland and Sherry fabrics from Oxxford generally range from super 100s to super 130s with a few super 140s, super 150s and no thread count fabrics thrown in. Eton fabrics from Oxxford generally range from super 100s to super 150s with a few super 160s, super 170s and no thread count fabrics thrown in. Scabal fabrics from Oxxford generally range from super 150s to super 220s with a few no thread count fabrics thrown in. I looked at all of Oxxford's fabrics at Bergdorf Goodman last week on Wednesday 9-6-06. I believe that the Scabal fabrics from them were the most expensive (and the nicest) with the Holland and Sherry fabrics the least expensive (and less nice than Scabal but still first class) and the Eton fabrics priced below Scabal and above Holland and Sherry. IMO, the Eton fabrics looked and felt the same as (no better, no worse) than the Holland and Sherry (which, again, were less nice to look at and feel than the Scabal fabrics but still first class). Despite having the highest super numbers when having a thread count, the Scabal fabrics actually felt just as durable as and just as resistant to wrinkles as or marginally more durable than and marginally more resistant to wrinkles than the Eton and Holland and Sherry farbics. I may or may not ever be able to afford Oxxford clothing (50/50 chance) at some point in my life. But my Uncle Joe and my father can easily afford Oxxford clothing. If anybody here on Ask Andy's has any knowledge whatsoever about which one of these three fabric sources that Oxxford gets their fabrics from is the best all around, please share it with me and the other forum members? Thank you in advance! This would come in handy if my father, my Uncle Joe and I ever decide that they are interested in buying any of the clothing that I mentioned above from Oxxford.
Tim Correll
Joined
·
6,643 Posts
The incorrect double negative aside, and with all due respect which, BTW, is enormous, I would heartily disagree with the intended meaning of your first sentence. The study of cloth is both science and art. The vast majority of artisans consider solely the art. This is fallible. The vast majority of weavers are attuned, in the main, to the science. That is fallible. Having said that, there are a few practitioners out here who recognize the duality of the matter and, given the time and necessary tools, are perfectly capable of gauging the quality of cloth.
As to your final thought, the fallacy of your opinion lies in its subjectivity. Try the sensuous feel of a gossamer wind which is silk chiffon. What - maybe a half-ounce per yard? Or the buttery Alumo 200's end-on-end at less than 3 ounces. There are some - a very few - 6.5oz tropicals which tailor like a dream. Your evident predilection towards 11oz-13oz cloths may foster a distaste for lightweight cloths; your objectivity as a renouned author should preclude such a narrow focus.
Usually so.If you're lazy, you can still get pretty close just by checking to see if it's sold by Lesser's.
I take exception to the view stated earlier in this thread that H&S retains complete independence from Oxxford. Individualized Apparel Group, Oxxford's parent, didn't purchase the firm just to let it sally forth without recognizing the importance of its new owners. I've never been a fan of vertical integration, but I must admit that Mr. Hays is the absolute master of that art in this field. He is not, however, known for letting his acquisitions ignore the services they can offer towards improving the bottom line of IAG as a whole. Were he to do so he would be a fool - and the man is no fool!
Well ... I'd agree with your opinion and certainly second the notorious part. :devil:
Joined
·
6,643 Posts
As frequently happens, you've disagreed with things I didn't say, responded to allegations I didn't make, and rewritten the question to suit your response. Much as I truly enjoy the discourse - especially with you - I will clarify my thoughts in, hopefully, clearer terms.
I then read onward to this:
That may be so but I didn't read it anywhere. What I read was:
To this I responded, not as a consumer, but as a professional user of clothing fabrics of all types for too long to think about, that you are incorrect. If one realizes both the art as well as the science of cloth - any cloth - one can make accurate qualitative assessments which, as you indicated, might require tools of some sort such as a microscope or pick glass. I did not allege, nor did I mean, that an average consumer - nor even most tailors, a fact I did intimate - can do so.
I then read onward to this:
and took umbrage at your inference that lightweight cloths - tissue paper, as you phrased it - are necessarily of poor quality. I strongly disagree with that for I have seen over the years many fabulously tailored coats of the lightest of cloths - 8oz and under. I don't claim that it is easy and as one who works daily with the lightest available weights of shirtings I will attest that the lighter the cloth, the more difficult the tailoring. This, however, is not a testament to poor quality of fabric, but more a question of the skill of the maker.
Firstly, I said this:
In my experience, for those who order clothes of these fabrics, longevity is of no concern. Seeking a long-lasting 6.5 oz tropical is like searching for durable cashmere socks.Alexander Kabbaz said:
As for your requests that I cite the sources, it has been more than a decade since I was actively buying jacketings. Nonetheless, I shall journey to the storeroom tomorrow and drag out my books. The only book I can recall off the top of my head before then was one by Cumberland in the early '90's which featured a wonderful selection of 6-7.5 oz cloths from which we made at least three jackets. I'll let you know what else I locate tomorrow.
Joined
·
6,643 Posts
The fact that we disagree does not mean I am picking a fight. I just do not agree with your assertion that quality cannot be determined and feel it is misleading. It remains for members to seek out one of the persons who can accurately judge cloth quality and develop a trusting relationship with him. They exist; I know of three in New York.
As far as the longevity issue, I am in your camp. It is for me almost an ironclad determinant. I would not own jackets/suits which I knew were good only for 10-20 wearings. That alters not one iota the fact that in my experience those who choose to spend their money on abnormally lightweight and/or fragile cloths do not have durability on their list of criteria.
And thank God for them!
As far as the longevity issue, I am in your camp. It is for me almost an ironclad determinant. I would not own jackets/suits which I knew were good only for 10-20 wearings. That alters not one iota the fact that in my experience those who choose to spend their money on abnormally lightweight and/or fragile cloths do not have durability on their list of criteria.
And thank God for them!
Joined
·
6,643 Posts
Fret not, LaoHu. Manton and I are fast and good friends. That said - and unshakably so - it is only through these many years of spirited discourse and repartee that AskAndy has become such a dynamic and valuable repository of information on this formerly abysmally documented subject.
Heck - if that weren't the case we'd all be shuffling to the office in our penny loafers with carnations in the keyhole lapel buttonholes of our black suits.
Joined
·
6,643 Posts
Two are members of AAAC.
Two share the same religion.
Two are artisans.
None are under 40 years old.
All are men.
None are bald.
None are retired ... yet.
None wish to reveal themselves except to their better clients.
Joined
·
6,643 Posts
3: Same country
0: Done shows together
3: Good looking
1: Scared of wife
What is this? 20 Questions?
Humph. I prefer to think a bit less stridently; perhaps of Buckley vs. Capote, thank you.
Joined
·
6,643 Posts
Having visited him a couple of times in the 1980's when my shirt store was in the same block as NR, I can only presume that it is Walmart or Men's Warehouse. :icon_smile_wink:
Joined
·
6,643 Posts
Oh, no! I'm toast. I knew I should have given S.J. the answer when he asked.
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
