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Perhaps there is already a voluminous thread on this. But with all the threads featuring pictures of Cordovan Tassle loafers, odes to the bit loafer, or other favorite trad attire...is there a thread showing a plethora of pictures featuring proper rolls on our various beloved button-down collars? I'd start one, but I'm a bit technically challenged and don't have a digital camera. I remember what could only have been an epiphany showing me my fondness for the trad look back in the '70s--when everyone was wearing hideous polyester shirts and leisure suits. I drove past a bill board advertising for a local politician. It was a close up of him in black and white with a perfectly rolled OCBD and rep tie with a four-in-hand knot. Not being anywhere near a Brooks Bros. or the the like at the time, it took several years to locate an OCBD (Gant) and a visit to a larger city where I happened into a traditional menswear shop and found some OCBD Seros and regimental striped ties. Wore them till I was able to move up to Gitman Bros and BB. One look at the proper collar and tie presentation can indeed change a man for life. At least in the way he dresses!
 

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Perhaps there is already a voluminous thread on this. But with all the threads featuring pictures of Cordovan Tassle loafers, odes to the bit loafer, or other favorite trad attire...is there a thread showing a plethora of pictures featuring proper rolls on our various beloved button-down collars? I'd start one, but I'm a bit technically challenged and don't have a digital camera. I remember what could only have been an epiphany showing me my fondness for the trad look back in the '70s--when everyone was wearing hideous polyester shirts and leisure suits. I drove past a bill board advertising for a local politician. It was a close up of him in black and white with a perfectly rolled OCBD and rep tie with a four-in-hand knot. Not being anywhere near a Brooks Bros. or the the like at the time, it took several years to locate an OCBD (Gant) and a visit to a larger city where I happened into a traditional menswear shop and found some OCBD Seros and regimental striped ties. Wore them till I was able to move up to Gitman Bros and BB. One look at the proper collar and tie presentation can indeed change a man for life. At least in the way he dresses!
I would nominate Ralph Fiennes in "Quiz Show" for Best Actor in a Leading Roll and
(and Rob Morrow or Paul Scofield for Best Actor in a Supporting Roll).

 

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The BB roll was the one every shirtmaker tried to copy. The Gant brothers, Marty and Elliot, bought Brooks shirts, took them apart, traced the different parts and assembled the shirts. The roll would never be "right". The Brooks roll, much like the formula for Coca Cola-( there are a number of cola beverages that, when chemically analyzed, are the same as Coke. They don't taste the same.) has never been successfully copied perfectly. Gant and Sero came closer than anyone else. We developed our own BD pattern that we had made by Troy Guild Shirtmakers- when they were really Troy Guild in the 60s. We still make that collar today.
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
 

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This thread gives me the opportunity to ask something I have often wondered:
Simply, Why is a collar roll so desirable on an OCBD?
I know it may be a subjective question, but I am interested in responses.
 

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Tucker -- I notice the "ogee" quality of your ideal collar roll. Two S-shapes in mirror image of each other. Hadn't thought of it that way before.

Why is a collar roll desirable? I think a good roll enhances the look of the OCBD, brings it out. Since your collar is buttoned down, creating a new space and shape -- it might as well be a robust one.

As a shadow adds depth and interest to a shape in a drawing, or as a plentiful mass of foliage adds something to a flower -- so a robust, full roll makes an OCBD more handsome, to some of us anyway.
 

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The BB roll was the one every shirtmaker tried to copy. The Gant brothers, Marty and Elliot, bought Brooks shirts, took them apart, traced the different parts and assembled the shirts. The roll would never be "right". The Brooks roll, much like the formula for Coca Cola-( there are a number of cola beverages that, when chemically analyzed, are the same as Coke. They don't taste the same.) has never been successfully copied perfectly. Gant and Sero came closer than anyone else. We developed our own BD pattern that we had made by Troy Guild Shirtmakers- when they were really Troy Guild in the 60s. We still make that collar today.
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
The late Joe Putnal, of Spencer's here in Atlanta, once told me that he went to the Troy Guild plant in NY. He saw hundreds of Brooks Brothers' shirt boxes, full of shirts made by Troy, ready to be shippped out. If true, this would seem to indicate that Troy knew how to make the Brooks BD roll. Your opinion?
 

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The late Joe Putnal, of Spencer's here in Atlanta, once told me that he went to the Troy Guild plant in NY. He saw hundreds of Brooks Brothers' shirt boxes, full of shirts made by Troy, ready to be shippped out. If true, this would seem to indicate that Troy knew how to make the Brooks BD roll. Your opinion?
I'm curious where (and exactly what) Spencer's was. I used to shop at Muse's and Zachry, and I've heard of Parkes-Chambers.
 

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The late Joe Putnal, of Spencer's here in Atlanta, once told me that he went to the Troy Guild plant in NY. He saw hundreds of Brooks Brothers' shirt boxes, full of shirts made by Troy, ready to be shippped out. If true, this would seem to indicate that Troy knew how to make the Brooks BD roll. Your opinion?
Did the shirts in the boxes have button-down collars? I guess it's possible that they were all point-collar shirts.
 

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I'm curious where (and exactly what) Spencer's was. I used to shop at Muse's and Zachry, and I've heard of Parkes-Chambers.
Atlanta's most Trad specialty shop; Norman Hilton, Troy Guild and Alden. It was much better than either Stockton or Guffey's. All items were sold under Spencer's own private label. Stockton's had exclusive rights to use the Hilton label. The elder Mr. Spencer used to go to England and buy bolts of really unusual and fine fabrics, which the store sent off to Hilton for MTM.
It was located virtually across from the Fox theatre. After it closed, the store became a dinner theater named "Agatha's." I think the dinner theater relocated a couple of years ago. The store is now vacant.
 

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Atlanta's most Trad specialty shop; Norman Hilton, Troy Guild and Alden. It was much better than either Stockton or Guffey's. All items were sold under Spencer's own private label. Stockton's had exclusive rights to use the Hilton label. The elder Mr. Spencer used to go to England and buy bolts of really unusual and fine fabrics, which the store sent off to Hilton for MTM.
It was located virtually across from the Fox theatre. After it closed, the store became a dinner theater named "Agatha's." I think the dinner theater relocated a couple of years ago. The store is now vacant.
The first four years I lived in Atlanta I was at the Georgian Terrace. I know the area well. I think Parkes-Chambers was on the opposite corner that's now a parking lot.

Agatha's relocated to Peachtree Center Avenue, in the building diagonally across from the former Mick's.

Now that they've torn down the old Bridgetown Grill building, there's a sign for an interior design shop visible on the side. Can't remember the name offhand, but I've seen old newspaper ads for them and they sold very high end tableware.
 

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^ The photographs with tie are helpful. When we talk about the "roll" we are talking about how the collar lies when worn with a tie. Sans tie, most OCBDs look pretty much the same.

P.S. An existential question. Why don't the catalogues ever show a shirt with a proper roll? Even the people who do a decent roll, such as Brooks (non-non-iron) and Ben Silver -- why don't their catalogues capture that? My hypothesis is that a good roll is assisted by a minimum of half a dozen lauderings, pressings, and starchings.

tjs
 
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