[OCULUS NY]

No Bow Ties?

To the original poster: I'm surprised that you didn't mention bow ties. Maybe later generations of MDs are giving up the that near-trademark--at least among those that I know. I've always heard it is a sanitary/convenience thing so that you aren't dragging your tie through somebody's gore and guts; but that you didn't site it (especially at a wounds conference) makes me think times are a changing! :icon_smile_wink:

 

[Bradford]

Having a number of friends who are doctors, I'd say the problem is a number of things.

1. They aren't really required to wear a specific outfit everyday. Even though Andy's article is great advice, a lot of doctors wear the lab coat without tie, many in hospitals wear scrubs all day and others just dress any way they want.

Most businessmen at least wear a shirt and tie everyday, so even if they don't do it well, they show up at conferences wearing a suit and tie.

2. They are on their feet all day so many end up wearing Crocs, clogs or other "comfort" shoes.

3. Their job is not dependent on how they look. If you're a good surgeon you can wear whatever you want and you'll still be employable. On the other hand, if you're the best financial analyst in the world but don't dress properly, you're in trouble. Plus you said this was a weekend conference. Since dress doesn't really matter, most guys aren't going to go out of their way to dress up on a weekend.

4. Like probably 99% of the population, they don't really care. I'd guess the parking lot had some nice cars and they drove them home to nice houses which is where these doctors spend their money.

 

[deanayer]

Thats not a windowpane suit, its a windowpain suit.

As for the group you described it actually doesn't sound all that bad, its the basic bell curve of what people think off when they hear "business casual" or "smart casual" with a few quirks thrown in. Some home-runs, some were in the ball park and the others fouled out. Hopefully one or two realized how far out they were when they saw the rest of their colleagues (but I doubt it).

 

[bbcrock]

Well, doctors are likely the worst-dressed of the professions, but I manage math PhDs on an engineering project. So I have people making six figures for whom society as a whole is a mystery, let alone clothes.

 

[Drogue]

In the UK what to wear as a doctor isn't simple, as there are strict rules on what you're allowed to wear - namely nothing below the elbow, so no shirt/suit sleaves, watches or rings, but still being smart - which makes it quite a challenge to look good.

 

[DocD]

Please remember I was not judging anyone on the room on their skills, etc., and as a matter of fact my last sentence even stated that these were very bright people and I was glad they were blessed with skills.

It was just my opinion based on attending many medical seminars for the past 20 years.

Ironically, our group recently created a "dress code" for our 13 group. Although 12 of the 13 doctors in our group performs surgery, and many got in the habit of wearing scubs with or without lab coats in the office, that has changed.

It is not/was not the image we wanted to project to our patients or other professionals, therefore every doctor in our group (except the two female physicians) must wear a shirt/tie/labcoat. Each lab coat is embroidered with the doctor's name and our office name/logo and the coat's are rotated.

Some were upset about the tie, since recent studies have shown that ties can actually be a source of infection, but so can the pen in our pocket, etc., so that argument didn't work.

I have to admit, that wearing scrubs some days was more convenient and comfortable, and my dry cleaning bill was lower and my ironing time was decreased, but the shirt/tie/labcoat look is definitely a more professional look for our group.

 

[Cruiser]

I have an orthopedic doc, an eye doc, a urologist, and an internist that I go to and I rarely see any of them wearing a tie. A pair of khakis and an OCBD seems to be the norm.

Even though he wears a coat and tie when he's doing a report on TV, it appears that Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks more like Dr. House when not on CNN. :icon_smile:

https://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sexysanjay.jpg

Cruiser

 

[Preu Pummel]

The room was filled with a lot of extremely bright and extremely pleasant doctors, but very few were ever going to "dress to impress", so I'm thankful that they are blessed with other skills!

My father was an MD (general pract./urinary surgeon/anesthesiologist), and I remember the day it changed. He used to dress extremely well, like most all doctors of the 50's and 60's. He needed to, since he did house calls and got reputation from cleanliness and appearance. During the early Carter admin., he began to complain about malpractice being a possible way to go instantly to the poor house and have 30 years of practice flushed away. Though he was never brought into court he saw many around him lose their lives to hungry lawyers. He instantly dressed like a bum, incorporated, and slightly later retired.

If a doctor dresses well these days it is probably blood in the water for the sue happy American and their enabled lawyers who want to be rich at the expense of the community and lives of others they destroy to get money.

 

[DocD]

I'm not going to dress "down" in an attempt to prevent a lawsuit or give the impression to my patients that I can't afford a decent shirt or tie.

In our practice, we deal with post operative patients, apply and remove casts, treat wounds, etc., so we're not encouraging our doctors to wear bespoke suits to the office. Wearing a fresh pair of khakis/chinos with a shirt and tie is perfectly acceptable considering the potential exposure in the office, even with a lab coat.

As per Andy's article, I think a doctor wearing a business suit to the office looks a bit inappropriate, but I do think a shirt/tie/clean lab coat does look professional and is not going to make a patient lawsuit happy.

Poor quality care, poor patient communication and the patient's belief that a doctor is arrogant is what ultimately generates lawsuits.

 

[Benjamin NYC]

I can't answer all of these questions but knowing a fair amount of doctors personally, and having discussed some of these things with them, I will try to summarize some of their thoughts:
-Doctors should not dress to impress, they should dress in a way that inspires confidence. Just like that plastic surgeon looks like an absolute idiot, most doctors realize this and are vaguely aware of their own lack of style, accept it, and move on, settling into a routine of buttondowns, khakis, blazers. That is exactly what is so unfortunate about that poor guy in the picture.
-Doctors in a hospital wear white coats that cover a lot of their bodies
-Doctors walk and stand a lot
The doctor I know best usually dresses like this: Khaki pants, Hermes or Ferragamo tie from grateful patient, white buttondown (LL Bean?), badly fitting sportjacket, rubber soled Mephistos/Eccos/etc, and white coat sometimes soiled by less grateful patients but kept in the office.
The real crux of the matter is, unlike a lawyer, banker, or even an accountant, a doctor is supposed to at least put on an air of being somewhat detached from the ups and downs of money. To wit, how would you feel if you went to the doctor and you saw a Ferrari with MD plates in front of the office? You'd think that it is somewhat unseemly for someone whose job it is to tend to the sick to make such a display of himself. While I and others on this board are aware of the differences between "flaunting," good taste, elegance, and the price of things, and that these are all independent variables, doctors often have other things on their minds.

 

[OCULUS NY]

How does he stay in business? Would you trust someone to perform surgery if they were wearing a matching tie and pocket square?

Too bad the plaid didn't get matched on his pockets. Clown suit, crown watch; not an unsurprising pairing.

 

[El Cid]

I always wondered about doctors ties.....Think of all the germs in his tie. He showers everyday and wears a crisp clean shirt and then proceeds to wear another contaminated tie.....Its not like he's washing his ties everyday.......I think there should be a health code against doctors wearing ties...

 

[DocD]

That's a hot topic of debate, and I may be wrong, but I believe that in the UK there was a proposal to ban ties from hospitals. I'm not sure if that's fact or urban legend.

My personal feeling is that in most office settings, very little portion of the tie is actually exposed when wearing a lab coat, and there isn't much debris or contaminant actually getting on the tie or having the ability to "spread" to an unsuspecting patient. I believe there is a greater danger when visiting a patient in the hospital and not wearing a lab coat, when the tie can become "exposed" or in contact with a host of contaminants.

And, as previously stated in another post, other daily objects such as a pen that is used from room to room is also a potential source of contamination, and much more likely to be a source of germs than a tie.

Studies have shown that it is much more effective to wash your hands with an alcohol based hand wash vs. soap and water, and it wouldn't hurt to use a simple alcohol wipe on your pen between seeing patients.

Fortunately our office uses dictation and/or electronic medical records, and the computers or dictation equipment isn't handled until our hands are wiped with an alcohol based cleanser.

But......watch out for those doorknobs!!!

 

[cdavant]

What he said. In my office the most likely contaminated surface is the door knob. Only my "good" ties ever get stained. When I walk into a room with a patient carrying anything likely contagious they have already coughed their way down the hall, exposing everyone in the waiting room, then the nurses to whatever. Coughing and sneezing are right up there with hand-to-hand exposure. I am sure you can culture pathogens from my pen, tie, coat, keyboard and so on--but there seems to be little evidence of illness spreading from them.
Under the right conditions a cigar might answer, but this is not a political thread.

 

[rmcnabb]

Many doctors dress badly for the same reason that many rock stars behave badly. Because that aspect of their lives is pretty much beside the point, and noone is going to call them on it (usually out of fear.)

 

[The Louche]

How about that plastic surgeon from the E! channel? He's supposed to be dressed like he cares about the way he looks, but his clothes are just gaudy.

Dr. 90210 loves Versace.

 

[CuffDaddy]

If a doctor dresses well these days it is probably blood in the water for the sue happy American and their enabled lawyers who want to be rich at the expense of the community and lives of others they destroy to get money.

If doctors are following this line of thinking, it is pure foolishness. Medmal plaintiffs' lawyers usually do not meet in-person with a doctor before deciding whether or not to sue them. The doctor's attire simply doesn't enter into the equation at all.

 

[son of brummell]

Doctors dress no better or worse than the general population. The USA general population dresses very casually.

E.g., I tagged along with my stepson for a couple of consultations with preeminent spinal surgeons. One wore a heavy cardigan sweater with an open shirt. The other wore surgical scrubs although it was an office day.

I think that many of the older patients remark upon doctors' informality and casual dress. They recall doctors as being more formal in manner and dress. Now, doctors and a whole group of professionals dress no differently than the computer guy.

 

[Sousaphil]

To the original poster: I'm surprised that you didn't mention bow ties. Maybe later generations of MDs are giving up the that near-trademark--at least among those that I know. I've always heard it is a sanitary/convenience thing so that you aren't dragging your tie through somebody's gore and guts; but that you didn't site it (especially at a wounds conference) makes me think times are a changing! :icon_smile_wink:

For pediatricians the bow tie is a functional thing. Imagine examining a toddler only to have him yank down on the business end of your full windsor...
The bow tie...a pediatrician's best friend.

 

[PocketTriangle]

Many doctors dress badly for the same reason that many rock stars behave badly. Because that aspect of their lives is pretty much beside the point, and noone is going to call them on it (usually out of fear.)

I disagree. Doctors dress badly for the reason you named. Rock stars often dress badly because it's "fashionable" to do so (e.g. the "grunge" look).