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Properly Fusing a collar costs me more ... much more ... than making an unfused collar. It lays flatter, lasts longer, and looks crisper. Fusing coats or shirt cuffs & center plackets can be another matter entirely.

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
quote:Originally posted by Alexander Kabbaz

Properly Fusing a collar costs me more ... much more ... than making an unfused collar. It lays flatter, lasts longer, and looks crisper. Fusing coats or shirt cuffs & center plackets can be another matter entirely.

https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks *
Well said Alex, this can often be the case with coats.

Trevor L. Furbay
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ROMUALDO TAILORING CO.
www.romualdo.com
 

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quote:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DocHolliday

An expensive garment shouldn't be made with cheap methods.

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Why?
Because then the higher price would not be justified. And it would be foolish to pay that price, wouldn`t it?;)
 

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Jackets made with a canvas tends to form to your body. Jackets with fusing tend to be stiff, so they will not form to your body in the same way. This, in addition to all the other reasons given (on this thread and another recent thread on fusing for jackets), is why the world's best suit makers use a canvas.

Why do you think that fusing can produce anywhere near the same result, Romualdo? I know fusing is better than it used to be on more pricey garments (RL Polo, for example), but it still is not as good as a canvas.
 

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quote:Originally posted by Romualdo

quote:Originally posted by DocHolliday

An expensive garment shouldn't be made with cheap methods.
Why do you think this is a cheap method?
I should elaborate: Fusing, as Alex notes, has its place, and can be done well. But, for the most part, it is used as a way to cut manufacturing costs. This is fine if it is part of a strategy to keep costs down for the consumer. But too often it's used as a way to increase the markup. If I'm going to pay premium prices, I expect premium quality in return.

Also, I find fusing hugely unpredictable. It's hard to tell how well it's been done and how well it will hold up.
 

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My objection is what fusing does to what it is attatched to.
When I select a cloth to construct a jacket, I pick a cloth that has a good hand and suppleness. Fusing bonds itself to the cloth and compromises the essence of the cloth. Cloth that is fused takes on the characteristics of the fusing materials and becomes a different cloth. Canvas gives support to the cloth but does not alter the intrinsic nature of the cloth. The characteristic values of the cloth remain intact to be appreciated when wearing. If you are a purist, this compromise would be objectionable.
I've seen good fusing, I know there are different weights and softness and firmness levels of fusing but fusing alone cannot replicate the shaping and feel that a canvased front has. Fusing has its place for stabilizing cloth and is cost effective and labor saving in manufacturing.
I've seen Kiton jackets that were entirely fused with no canvas. But this was done to create a different style of garment and it did not feel or look like their canvased jackets. I was commissioned to recreate this garment. I made 3 complete jackets, experimenting with fusing techniques to learn how this jacket was made before ever starting the clients. In the end I still used collar linen over fusing because I just couldn't get there with fusing.

Romualdo, cheers or jeers, what do you think of fusing?
 

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The fusing is on the side of the collar that does not show, right?

Why would you prefer not to fuse the inside of - for instance - barrel cuffs? Wouldn't that simply help them retain their shape better?

quote:Originally posted by Alexander Kabbaz

Properly Fusing a collar costs me more ... much more ... than making an unfused collar. It lays flatter, lasts longer, and looks crisper. Fusing coats or shirt cuffs & center plackets can be another matter entirely.

https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks *
 

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quote:Originally posted by Alexander Kabbaz

Properly Fusing a collar costs me more ... much more ... than making an unfused collar. It lays flatter, lasts longer, and looks crisper. Fusing coats or shirt cuffs & center plackets can be another matter entirely.
Alex, can you address the issue of collar shrinkage? Is it collar fusing that continues to shrink or other factors?
Is it improper laundering? Is it bad fusing or application techninique that causes shrinkage?
What's the deal?
I am asking about shirt collars that are 16" when new and 15" 6 months later.
Would really like to know?
Chris
 

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quote:I should elaborate: Fusing, as Alex notes, has its place, and can be done well. But, for the most part, it is used as a way to cut manufacturing costs. This is fine if it is part of a strategy to keep costs down for the consumer. But too often it's used as a way to increase the markup. If I'm going to pay premium prices, I expect premium quality in return.
Also, I find fusing hugely unpredictable. It's hard to tell how well it's been done and how well it will hold up.
I agree completely with Doc Holiday on this.

quote: The fusing is on the side of the collar that does not show, right?
Why would you prefer not to fuse the inside of - for instance - barrel cuffs? Wouldn't that simply help them retain their shape better?
No. It is on the underside of the cloth that shows. Why not on cuffs? Because cuffs actually touch you whereas collar leaves do not. I don't really want that extreme stiffness touching me. Some clients (two) insist that I fuse their cuffs. They must beat their wrists agains ricebags to build up callouses in advance.

quote:Alex, can you address the issue of collar shrinkage? Is it collar fusing that continues to shrink or other factors?
Is it improper laundering? Is it bad fusing or application techninique that causes shrinkage?
What's the deal?
I am asking about shirt collars that are 16" when new and 15" 6 months later.
Would really like to know?
Chris
Although there is a certain degree of truth to all of the factors you mention, the primary reason is not what I would call 'bad' fusing. It is improper technique. Most of the bad techniques have to do with an inherent defect in the construction of production-oriented fusing machines.

The remainder of the bad techniques are hinted at in my book. All of the bad techniques are listed in my Last Will and Testament as a gift to any of my children who go into the business. If none do, they will appear in the revised edition of the book. [}:)]

https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks *
 

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For those interested, there is an elite, secret society of men in midtown Manhattan who beat their wrists against rice bags every Friday night in the spring and fall. Feel free to contact me for membership information.

Carmine
 

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quote:Originally posted by Alexander Kabbaz

quote: The fusing is on the side of the collar that does not show, right?
Why would you prefer not to fuse the inside of - for instance - barrel cuffs? Wouldn't that simply help them retain their shape better?
No. It is on the underside of the cloth that shows. Why not on cuffs? Because cuffs actually touch you whereas collar leaves do not. I don't really want that extreme stiffness touching me. Some clients (two) insist that I fuse their cuffs. They must beat their wrists agains ricebags to build up callouses in advance.
Perhaps this is simply a question of fusing done well vs. fusing done poorly but don’t you find that fusing underneath the side of the collar that shows shortens the useful life of that collar â€" at least compared with fusing underneath the side of the collar that faces down?

In either case, the collar is given the necessary structure to look crisp and keep a tie from slipping out from under the collar. But in the case that the fusing is underneath the non-showing side, you never have to worry about the fusing bubbling and ruining the collar (and likely the shirt). Perhaps with well executed-fusing, that simply will never happen but a priori, it seems like a risk that need not be taken.

I’ve also found that a collar fused on the non-showing side feels much softer and more comfortable â€" especially when a tie is worn.

I’ve also seen something similar with French cuffs. The soft, unfused side is all that touches the wrist while the other side is fused, allowing them to stay crisp.
 

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quote:Originally posted by Romualdo

quote:Originally posted by EL72

I don't like wearing coats with bubbles.
Do you belive all coats with fusing bubble?

Trevor L. Furbay
Proprietor

ROMUALDO TAILORING CO.
www.romualdo.com
That's not what I said (are you a logical positivist?). It's not because I saw one black raven that therefore all ravens are black. Nevertheless, I have two Hugo Boss suits ruined due to bubbling and that's enough empiricial evidence for me to conclude that fusing is bad and more likely to bubble than canvassed coats.
 

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quote:Originally posted by Fabrizio

How can you tell if a jacket is fused or unfused (without taking it apart)?
Pinch the fabric on the inside and outside of the coat below the bottom button. Gently pull them apart. If you can feel a separate, third layer of cloth inside, the coat is not fused.
 
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