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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
“America is …, uh, is no longer, uh … what it could be, what it once was. And I say to myself, I don’t want that future for my children.” - Barack Obama (August 2008)

“For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country.” - Michelle Obama (Feb. 2008)

Does this mean that even when America was what it should have been Michelle Obama was not proud of it?
 

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If anyone wants to sling things at least take a few seconds to get the quote right. One can view the famous remark in its entirety here:



And read it here:

"What we have learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It is making a comeback. And let me tell you something -- for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. I've seen people who are hungry to be unified around some basic common issues, and it's made me proud."

--A.Q.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Reading the full quote does nothing to lessen its absurdity.
 

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If anyone wants to sling things at least take a few seconds to get the quote right. One can view the famous remark in its entirety here

And read it here:

"What we have learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It is making a comeback. And let me tell you something -- for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. I've seen people who are hungry to be unified around some basic common issues, and it's made me proud."

--A.Q.
If you take a few more seconds, you can get it even more 'right', by recognizing that the quote you cite is not the only one. She has said at least a couple of versions which do differ somewhat.

In any case, it is interesting that in her ~25 years of adult life, she has only now become proud of her country.
 

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^ While I certainly prefer that "Barack" not become the next president of this great nation, should such happen, I would be so much more distressed by the reality that "Michelle" would be our First Lady...what an insult that would be to so many Americans!
 

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And when did John McCain start loving America?

John McCain has repeatedly stated that he didn't love our country until he was captured as a POW during Vietnam. Here's what McCain said in March on FOX:

"I didn't really love America until I was deprived of her company."

Then there's McCain in 1999:

"It wasn't until I was deprived of her company that I fell in love with America."

McCain was 31 years old when he was captured. 31. Far into adulthood. So McCain was fighting for our country, a country he didn't love. And we're supposed to respect the military service of a man who didn't love his country. Then why was he fighting?

 

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John McCain has repeatedly stated that he didn't love our country until he was captured as a POW during Vietnam. Here's what McCain said in March on FOX:

"I didn't really love America until I was deprived of her company."

Then there's McCain in 1999:

"It wasn't until I was deprived of her company that I fell in love with America."

McCain was 31 years old when he was captured. 31. Far into adulthood. So McCain was fighting for our country, a country he didn't love. And we're supposed to respect the military service of a man who didn't love his country. Then why was he fighting?

LOL--If there's an award for "Most Desperate Post of the Year," I know which one I'm gonna nominate!
 

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If McCain loved America, he'd abdicate to Ron Paul.

An underachieving childs parents should not be proud of the child. They can love the child, but heaping undeserved pride would be wrong.

Same with America. It is not living up to it's potential. I'm not proud of it. The Obamas love America and hence choose to improve the country instead of being complacent with a slipping mediocrity.

Oh, why was McCain fighting? Page one of common knowledge about John S. McCain III is that he is military royalty - a father and grandfather who were four star admirals. He was unquestionably in the family business (which admittedly shows far greater love of country than anyone in the Bush administration ever had).
 

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Plenty of people on the left share this way of thinking, no doubt.

They can have no pride in their country because it has imperfections. They cannot be proud of the good things that it does because there are other things it does that they think are wrong.

Michelle could take no pride in anything that America did in her ~25 years of adulthood because there were also imperfections that went along with it.

But wait... now it appears that her husband could be elected. Bingo! instant pride in America... so she claims. America had now earned her platitudes because many seem to agree with her and her husband's political philosophy. The only thing, apparently, for which she takes pride in America. I suppose if Obama does not get elected, then she goes back to no pride, just a bitter, angry, and rich lawyer and wife of a rich US Senator.

It's interesting how people view things. I look at the McCain family history of military service with admiration, while you look at it with contempt. I think our opposing views fairly represent one of the differences between the left and right political spectrum.

Edit: One more thing. Kids: You're never going to be proud of everything they do! That doesn't mean you can't be proud of your kids.
 

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I'm proud that America disapproves of Bush's performance.

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Shurz

Bush took something right and set it wrong, and McCain offers little hope of changing course.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson.
 

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Oh, so it's quote throwdown time? Ok, but I'll only play one round, though. Here it is.

I'm sharing one of my favorite Sam Johnson quotes with you:

"Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Shurz

Bush took something right and set it wrong, and McCain offers little hope of changing course.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson.
I'm always amused when some try to pass on witty "quotes" as sage wisdom or the underpinning of some over arching political philosophy.

I will attempt to paraphrase Samuel Johnson: "Rebuttals in the form of second hand quotes is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
 

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I'm still waiting for a good reason.
peirpont,

McCain's "good" reason for fighting for his country? Do you question every veteran's reason for fighting for his country? If you don't like a particular reason, does that invalidate his service and what he accomplished? If he has several reasons do you have to approve of them all?

What they may say notwithstanding, can you ever really know a man's true thinking? Not really. Therefore, judge a man by his actions. That's the best measure of a man. McCain's action make him a hero or they don't. What he was thinking at the time is unknowable and irrelevant unless one is on a witch hunt.

As to speculating on McCain's reasons, my guess is he fought out of a sense of duty to his country. If another man wants of suggest some nefarious reason let them have at it. It doesn't diminish his accomplishment or sacrifice in the least.
 

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It doesn't diminish his accomplishment or sacrifice in the least.
Not to belittle, but McCain's own book states that he knew his . Sacrifice, yes. Accomplishment, dubious.

Also, thanks for summing up the "you ever really know a [wo]man's true thinking" thing as it saves me the trouble of saying the same about Michelle Obama's patriotism.
 

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Not to belittle, but McCain's own book states that he knew his . Sacrifice, yes. Accomplishment, dubious.

Also, thanks for summing up the "you ever really know a [wo]man's true thinking" thing as it saves me the trouble of saying the same about Michelle Obama's patriotism.
Just to keep things on the up and up, the issue from the beginning was Michelle's lack of pride in America, not her patriotism. Prior to PT's response about that above, you are the only one to keep mentioning patriotism.

Now, maybe you are right and Michelle has been proud of her country at least once, maybe twice during her adult years, despite her claims. Maybe, she just can't bring herself to admit it.
 
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