[Flanderian]

This is something of only local interest, until you realize that it's long been happening throughout our country; another men's store is closing.

Sam's Men's Shop had little renown, except to its customers. This 120 year old business in Livingston NJ began in Newark, NJ, then not only New Jersey's largest city, but the industrial and commercial center of the entire state.

I've never been to Sam's, and I expect with what has happened to the clothing business, with fast-fashion dominating sales, and an aging ownership, they've decided to lease out the property they own, rather than continue to operate their business. I only learned of it because a local TV station happened to pick up news of their departure, and thought it made a good story. They interviewed, staff, owners and customers, all of whom were heart broken by this necessity. And it's so rare that anyone typically gives a d**n about such things.

Why are such businesses special, and why is their loss such a loss to men everywhere who care about clothes? It's because of what they did. Good luck getting this kind of personal service from JAB. When the reporter interviewed their salesmen, you could smell the chalk.

• Free Parking
• Free gift packaging
  
• Free local delivery
• On-site tailor shop, Unconditional guarantee of satisfaction,
  
• Gift Certificates
• UPS shipping
• Hours built around your schedule
• Made to Measure and Wardrobe Consulting
• Knowledgeable, experienced and friendly sales staff

https://www.yelp.com/biz/sams-fine-mens-clothing-livingston

 

[smmrfld]

The suit fit and ps/tie combo on the left side of that pic isn’t very impressive...wonder if indicative of their recent business.

 

[eagle2250]

Soon every one of us will be buying everything on Amazon. Their will simply be no other options!

 

[paul winston]

Fine clothing has become a niche market. The overwhelming number of men no longer wear suits/jackets to work. An even larger % do not wear ties. Of those who wear ties the fact that my small company- Chipp Neckwear - sells Ancient Madder ties for $75 ( the going price for comparable quality Madder ties is $150+) is of no interest - they want to spend $15/$20 for a tie. This does not make them bad people - it is a product of our times.
Many individuals in many businesses no longer meet face to face to transact their business. Many people work from home - some probably sit at their computers in their boxer shorts. To many of the AAAC forum members and visitors the spread of "casual" dress is a plague. I went into a bank in NJ not long ago and was greeted by a bank VP ( Everyone in a bank is a VP) who was wearing a knit golf shirt and khaki trousers.
To those who care about quality,fit, personal service......... the handwriting is on the wall.
Paul Winston
212 687-0850

 

[MNJ83]

To many of the AAAC forum members and visitors the spread of "casual" dress is a plague. I went into a bank in NJ not long ago and was greeted by a bank VP ( Everyone in a bank is a VP) who was wearing a knit golf shirt and khaki trousers.
To those who care about quality,fit, personal service......... the handwriting is on the wall.
Paul Winston
212 687-0850

What has happened at the banks is recent. Like the last couple of years. Four years ago everyone was still in suit and tie...... It's difficult to know how to react to this, because On one hand you don't want to be overdressed at your job, on the other hand, anything and everything that is not a pair of sneakers, khakis and a polo will soon be considered being overdressed.

 

[Flanderian]

The suit fit and ps/tie combo on the left side of that pic isn't very impressive...wonder if indicative of their recent business.

I agree. It's fitted awkwardly on the form, and the whole display is rather amateurish and D.I.Y. But not really all that unusual for a small suburban haberdasher without ready access to or the budget for the talent pool which dresses windows in Manhattan or other city centers.

For what it's worth, all the men interviewed who were involved with the operation of the store were dressed immaculately and rather conservatively with a conspicuously precise fit. I've known other suburban establishments with surprisingly good and experienced tailors. I think this is in part because many are older gentlemen who prefer to avoid the city rat-race.

 

[HanEyeAm]

We have more shops in our small city, if you include the small corporate MTM shops that have been popping up. Some have pretty good marks particularly for shirts. Not all.

I've said it before here, the customer service and sales person knowledge base at Men's Wearhouse and Joseph A Bank here is surprisingly good, which may not have been the case in the past. Also, it is something that I have found is not a given at traditional men's clothiers, often seemingly successful in today's market by relying on the personality of the now septuagenarian proprietor rather than by keeping up with fashion.

 

[Dhaller]

I have to say, though - I think is less "changing tastes" than it is "internal business failure".

I mean, look at those mannequins - those are thirty years old, easily. That's the kind of thing you see in dying malls.

Atlanta, I think, actually has *more* men's shops now than when I was a kid - H. Stockton (3 locations), Guffey's, Miller Bros., and Sid Mashburn come to mind off-hand (I shop at H. Stockton and Sid Mashburn). There are others, but those I name offer the kinds of more traditional/less "fashion forward" options; add some flash and there are many more stores.

H. Stockton and Guffey's are old (maybe not 120 years old, but many decades), but they've kept apace of the times: they have younger staff (well-trained) mingled with the silver set, updated settings, and use contemporary marketing methods. Miller Brothers and Sid Mashburn offer drinks; Miller Brothers even has a kind of lounge where men can sit and relax, have a beer, and watch the World Cup with the owner (actually too intimate a setting for *me*, but I'm sure it nails down a return client). They all host frequent trunk shows, etc. (Miller Brothers has a Made to Measure event this weekend.)

And Sid Mashburn in nationally known at this point.

So a lot of this is complacent owners who have failed to invest in their businesses over the years (I bet that new-fangled "web presence" which seemed so unnecessary twenty years ago looks pretty good now, yes?), and now - like someone who never went to the doctor or dentist for twenty years - it's all catching up.

Granted, my impressions are subjective, but I see no imminent peril for men's shops.

DH

 

[Flanderian]

I have to say, though - I think is less "changing tastes" than it is "internal business failure".

I mean, look at those mannequins - those are thirty years old, easily. That's the kind of thing you see in dying malls.

Atlanta, I think, actually has *more* men's shops now than when I was a kid - H. Stockton (3 locations), Guffey's, Miller Bros., and Sid Mashburn come to mind off-hand (I shop at H. Stockton and Sid Mashburn). There are others, but those I name offer the kinds of more traditional/less "fashion forward" options; add some flash and there are many more stores.

H. Stockton and Guffey's are old (maybe not 120 years old, but many decades), but they've kept apace of the times: they have younger staff (well-trained) mingled with the silver set, updated settings, and use contemporary marketing methods. Miller Brothers and Sid Mashburn offer drinks; Miller Brothers even has a kind of lounge where men can sit and relax, have a beer, and watch the World Cup with the owner (actually too intimate a setting for *me*, but I'm sure it nails down a return client). They all host frequent trunk shows, etc. (Miller Brothers has a Made to Measure event this weekend.)

And Sid Mashburn in nationally known at this point.

So a lot of this is complacent owners who have failed to invest in their businesses over the years (I bet that new-fangled "web presence" which seemed so unnecessary twenty years ago looks pretty good now, yes?), and now - like someone who never went to the doctor or dentist for twenty years - it's all catching up.

Granted, my impressions are subjective, but I see no imminent peril for men's shops.

DH

Though I think "internal business failure" might be more fully explained as aging, less interested ownership, I think you're generally correct. And While I applaud Atlanta's vibrant local men's retail environment, I could only hope it would be the rule rather than the exception. I know what's reported here is common locally in the large shadow Manhattan casts, and from reports, elsewhere around the country as well.

 

[MonkeySuit]

I’m sorry to hear that. I grew up in East Hanover, next to Livingston, and we occasionally shopped at Sam’s for casual clothes as a kid. I recall (but obviously I could be mistaken) it being more of a middle of the road mens’ and boys’ store at the time, not the more high-end shop it seems to have become. It was a very popular place to go for your bar mitzvah suit. (Though they didn’t have my at the time husky size so they weren’t responsible for the 70’s hunter green polyester dress leisure suit I got from a store in Union whose name escapes me.)

 

[Howard]

Soon every one of us will be buying everything on Amazon. Their will simply be no other options!

We have no choice but to buy online after the closing of so many stores, Amazon and Ebay will be our only choices.

 

[Dcr5468]

Fine clothing has become a niche market. The overwhelming number of men no longer wear suits/jackets to work. An even larger % do not wear ties. Of those who wear ties the fact that my small company- Chipp Neckwear - sells Ancient Madder ties for $75 ( the going price for comparable quality Madder ties is $150+) is of no interest - they want to spend $15/$20 for a tie. This does not make them bad people - it is a product of our times.
Many individuals in many businesses no longer meet face to face to transact their business. Many people work from home - some probably sit at their computers in their boxer shorts. To many of the AAAC forum members and visitors the spread of "casual" dress is a plague. I went into a bank in NJ not long ago and was greeted by a bank VP ( Everyone in a bank is a VP) who was wearing a knit golf shirt and khaki trousers.
To those who care about quality,fit, personal service......... the handwriting is on the wall.
Paul Winston
212 687-0850

Well Paul I want at least 1 or 2 more ancient madders for whatever that is worth...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dcr5468]

What has happened at the banks is recent. Like the last couple of years. Four years ago everyone was still in suit and tie...... It's difficult to know how to react to this, because On one hand you don't want to be overdressed at your job, on the other hand, anything and everything that is not a pair of sneakers, khakis and a polo will soon be considered being overdressed.

I'm a banker and it depends on what I have going on - clients most likely blazer and tie or suit. Especially new large clients.

Not everyone operates this way but I firmly believe you send an unspoken message with the way you dress when meeting new folks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MNJ83]

I'm a banker and it depends on what I have going on - clients most likely blazer and tie or suit. Especially new large clients.

Not everyone operates this way but I firmly believe you send an unspoken message with the way you dress when meeting new folks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IDK, now with Capital One literally turning branches into coffee shops and other following suit, bankers are being turned into baristas of currency. I hope I don't get confused and deposit my money at the local Starbucks.

 

[eagle2250]

^^
Egad, at the prices Starbucks charges for a cup of Joe, it would seem many of us have been experiencing the confusion suggested in the post above, for years! LOL.

 

[Tim Correll]

To a certain extent, there will always be a market for brick and mortar custom accessory, clothing and shoe making. However, it will never again be anywhere near what it once was. It will always be a niche market-and forever one of the most accurate examples of a niche market in existence.

 

[JBierly]

To a certain extent, there will always be a market for brick and mortar custom accessory, clothing and shoe making. However, it will never again be anywhere near what it once was. It will always be a niche market-and forever one of the most accurate examples of a niche market in existence.

But they may be few and far apart. If you live in a large city no problem - small town - amazon and walmart.

 

[Dcr5468]

Based on some recent conferences I’ve been to, it will be both.

It’s easy to forget that Amazon internet retail has yet to turn a profit. Free returns and the head spinning logistics of delivering almost anything anywhere in 2 days is incredibly complex and expensive.

Old line retailers have the logistics part figured out. There are several “internet” retailers that are opening brick and mortar stores because there is only so much you can pick out on line.

For example, how many people order multiple items then return everything except what fits? That’s a money loser for the retailer I can guarantee.

Expect to see free returns to store only for internet sales.

The future will be some type of hybrid but not all internet and Walmart


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[Adriel Rowley]

The market determines what is profitable, therefore, stores closing is inevitable. Take Craftsman, used to be made in the USA, then China, and now as far as I am aware soon to be terminated. That leaves higher end brands who's profit can support staying in business. I suspect the same in apparel, for example, seems Nordstrom is going to stay afloat, especially if their New Store Concept pans out.

Further, there will still be online only retailers, like Lands End who was the first catalogue only company. So long as they have great customer service, especially clear sizing, should be able to compete with Amazon (which has no sizing information and very low quality apparel).

Just another interesting fact to add, I prefer online shopping because the lights, sounds, and smells are overwhelming. I do have a Service Dog to alert to a meltdown coming, so can go, just prefer not to. Also, way more selection as one can also shop the European market.