Double breasted dinner jacket

Intravenous · Apr 23, 2006

Hello everybody,

I'm new to the forum, and need help with formal wear. The search function on this site doesn't seem to be working for me, so please don't kill me if my question has already been answered. My senior prom is on June 1 and today I went out to browse for tuxedos, previously having decided on renting this one:

I am the only person I know that has any affinity for double breasted jackets; nobody seems to wear them anymore, I figure I'll be unique. My question is, what do I wear underneath it? Is it acceptable to wear a cummerbund, or, if not, do I require braces/suspenders, a belt, or nothing at all?

While I was at Zeller Tuxedos, the two salespersons there offered a package that included a cummerbund, explaining that a vest is never to be worn underneath a DB. Later, when I searched google, I kept coming across sites that said such things as "a cummerbund is not necessary" or "not usually worn with" a DB. Alan Flusser was the only guy that definitively said a dinner jacket should not have anything underneath, and in my mind he's a top fashion authority, albeit of the old school variety.

Etiquette dictates that one is always to have a DB buttoned when standing, unbuttoned when seated. Therefore, in theory, my waistband will never show if I follow the rules. However, for practical reasons, I inevitably will be forced to remove my jacket or suffer heat stroke from dancing. If I go by Alan Flusser I'll end up with a bow tie, wing tip pleated shirt, and a naked waistband hideous to behold. If I go by practicality, I can go from wearing the DB with cummerbund hidden while feeling guilty inside, take off the jacket, and pretend like I was wearing a SB.

So, what do I wear underneath?

Thanks in advance.

Spence · Apr 23, 2006

I went through the same dilemma for a black tie wedding a few summers ago, where I had a DB dinner jacket.

Skip the accessories and just get a nice formal shirt and tie. Don't unbutton the coat unless you're in the lavatory.

-spence

Concordia · Apr 23, 2006

No vest, no cummerbund, forget the wing collar. White braces on the trousers. Keep the jacket buttoned, even while seated. You'll look great.

Hanseat · Apr 23, 2006

The great Manton once said:

Nothing is required.

That wit takes a second, but then it comes...

No cummerbund- a DB has to be cut in a way that allows you to keep it closed even when seated unlike a SB.

I wore white tie to my prom so believe me, I know abut the concerns you have. I did not have to remove my jacket as they knew how to use the AC, plus I would have looked hideous. The ladies loooved it (could hardly keep them off me, plus being the only guy that knows how to dance helps. If you can take some dancing lessons with your date and be the only couple around that knows how to Waltz. If you don't have a date, no problem- learn it alone and then teach a girl at prom. They will love you for it. I GUARANTEE it. Ask the DJ to play a waltz, be bold, step in the middle and start waltzing. Everyone will look at you after about a minute, you will have a square to dance in and afterwards you will have at least 15 girls wanting to dance with you. You will have lots to do the following weeks because you're the only sophisticated guy around in their eyes.).

The most important piece of advice: Buy a good white shirt with turndown collar and french cuffs. The shirts for rental are so bad you wouldn't even want to think about having that on your skin (you will sweat in those plastic bags). Put a white t-shirt beneath it so it's really nice and white. The shirt is the single most important piece of clothing when it comes to comfort (leaving the shoes aside, to rent those is 'verboten'!), you will enjoy this kind of shirts for years to come, so do yourself a favor and spend some money on it.
You'll need some cufflinks but then again those can be had cheaply. The shirts available for rentla often have the informal sports cuffs!

Buy a good pocket square and just stuff it with a puff in the breat pocket (that style is not availybele pre-folded), maybe in red, calssic white or if you're really after the 'breaking one rule-thing' a wild, bright paisley.

I'm 18, going 19 in a couple of days and own a DB tux. I wear it a lot when partying (the scandinavians really dress up for the disco btw.- tuxedos on many guys). If you get a DB that is in barathea you won't sweat either (really lightweight fabric).

The way the DB buttons is soemwhat odd to my eye:
out of 6 buttons only one fastens, two would be normal. And the buttons are all sort of low. Another thing is that the fabric that runs aroud the neck from the lapels looks a bit too shiney. It might be silk faced too, which is incorrect.

Just a piucture of me at a recent party- I'm the guy on the left.
A tuxedo is a great piece of clothing to own!

Intravenous · Apr 23, 2006

Spence,

What do you mean by formal shirt and tie? If you mean a laydown collar shirt with necktie, I'm afraid I'll look like I'm wearing a suit rather than a tux. I don't see what's wrong with the guy in the photo.

I suppose I could keep the jacket on and bear the heat for the sake of etiquette.

Concordia,

What kind of collar do I wear? Again, what's wrong with the guy in the photo? I'm not sure if Zeller offers white suspenders for rent. Besides, I'm not sure if I could pull them off, and I'm afraid to ask if a belt is remotely acceptable.

Hanseat · Apr 23, 2006

Belt is not an option! In fact the trousers won't/ shouldn't even hace belt loops. They will have side adjusters though, which will work if you really can't stand the idea of wearing braces.

Heat really is only a problem with a cheap shirt and a fabric that is too heavy. Many rental pieces are far too heavy but you'll find something that works. Ask about the lining of the jacket- it should be either viscose (made from cotton) or bemberg. This is where most of the heat gets trapped otherwise (think of wearing a plastic bag, which it would pretty much be).

They hotel where the prom is should know that they'll have to turn up the AC.

Get a shirt with little spread, so that the bow tie will look good on it (over the points).
A wing collar is too affected to really be pulled off these days (heck, Bond wear turndown collars; Tom Cruise in Eyes WIde Shut looks great in a turndown collar). Wing collar only with a SB peak lapel jacket, please. No worry about looking to business-like, you won't.

The problem with wing collars is that you will see the ugly adjuster on the bow tie unless you get a sized bow tie and learn how to properly tie that.

Teacher · Apr 23, 2006

quote:Originally posted by Intravenous

Spence,

What do you mean by formal shirt and tie? If you mean a laydown collar shirt with necktie, I'm afraid I'll look like I'm wearing a suit rather than a tux. I don't see what's wrong with the guy in the photo.

I suppose I could keep the jacket on and bear the heat for the sake of etiquette.

Concordia,

What kind of collar do I wear? Again, what's wrong with the guy in the photo? I'm not sure if Zeller offers white suspenders for rent. Besides, I'm not sure if I could pull them off, and I'm afraid to ask if a belt is remotely acceptable.

A wing collar, like in the photo, is for white tie. Yes, you see it with black tie, but that's sort of a hybrid look. (As an aside, the collar is usually higher than the one in the photo, too). For black tie, wear a turn-down point or semi-spread collar, and tie your own black bow tie. At the end of the evening (after the end of your event), untie the tie and let it hang around your neck...for some reason, women loooove this.

As others have said, go ahead and wear a DB, and do so without cummerbund or vest. Keep the coat buttoned at all times, as an unbuttoned DB coat looks awful (the weight of the fabric in front causes it to swing wide open, giving you a very odd, boxy shape).

Belts are supposed to be out for black tie, but I honestly don't see it as truly problematic, as no one should see your waist anyway. Suspenders are more comfortable, though.

And have fun!

CPVS · Apr 23, 2006

Not to hijack this thread, but what does The Board think of the Jos A Bank double-breasted dinner jacket? Where are Jos A Bank suits & formal wear made? And where in the spectrum of Jos A Bank's business wear would their formalwear fall (e.g., equivalent to Signature)?

One more thing: is it still possible to find Brooks Brothers double-breasted dinner jackets, or do they only have the notch-lapel single-breasteds?

TIA!

Intravenous · Apr 23, 2006

For economical reasons (and the fact that my parents are overseeing all of these purchases) I don't think that buying my own shirt will be feasible, though I certainly understand (from painful experience) the evils of shirts made from synthetic fabric. Hanseat, I will try to buy the white shirt with turndown collar and french cuff; if turndown is good enough for Bond it's good enough for me, but then I'm not sure how the studs offered for rental will work out. Also, pleats or no pleats?

Even with the AC up, I generally become overheated easily, which is why I'm wondering whether I can get away with wearing a cummerbund. Yes, I know it's simply not done, the salespeople are probably just pushing it on me to make an extra buck, and the fashion police will swoop down and beat me senseless, but for practical considerations, I don't see the problem with having it when its not seen. Teacher, you said no one would see my waist anyway, with the jacket on. With the jacket off, what's wrong with not wanting to have the naked waistband? I don't want to sound like I'm arguing, but for me it will likely become too hot to wear the jacket, in which case I'll probably be asked to consider a SB peak as an alternative. I figure greater travesties have been made before.

If the money were all mine, I would go for the white turndown collar shirt with french cuff, my own stud/cufflink set, and my own shoes. Because my parents have to approve though, I fear I will just end up with the package offered to me, and the glaring contempt of everyone on this forum, since my parents aren't willing to go out of their way, as they don't see what the big deal is for just this one night. There's no arguing with them, and I do understand their vehement disapproval of spending an extra 100+ dollars on attire that I will seldom ever wear again.

Will I really look all that awful/be shot for wearing the wingtip "hybrid look" collar pleated shirt and cummerbund, and after taking off my jacket (please believe me when I say I get overheated easily), just act like I was wearing SB peak? I'll try my damndest to get a real bowtie so that there aren't any ugly hooks or adjusters exposed, or hopefully they'll just offer spread turndown collar. This is senior prom; everybody will simply be renting whatever the catalogs depict as fashionable and breaking all sorts of rules. Nobody in my school will be any the wiser if I do the same, much less care even if they knew.

BTW, Hanseat, what part of Germany are you from? I was in Bad Iburg, Bad Rothenfelde, Bad Larr, Berlin, and Hamburg last summer as part of a foreign exchange.

Again, my apologies to everyone if I sound like I'm arguing/being stubborn or don't appreciate your help, but feasibility limits my options.

tiger02 · Apr 23, 2006

quote:Originally posted by Hanseat
the scandinavians really dress up for the disco btw.- tuxedos on many guys

Hanseat, when I get back to Europe, you're going to have to tell me where to find places like this in Germany.

I have to disagree with the pumped-up AC thing. The venue should be catering to women with off the shoulder gowns and deep scoop backs. It's on us to be uncomfortable. For the prom, and only for the prom, I'd recommend suspenders and a cummerbund.

Tom

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today

Teacher · Apr 23, 2006

quote:Originally posted by Intravenous

Teacher, you said no one would see my waist anyway, with the jacket on. With the jacket off, what's wrong with not wanting to have the naked waistband? I don't want to sound like I'm arguing, but for me it will likely become too hot to wear the jacket, in which case I'll probably be asked to consider a SB peak as an alternative. I figure greater travesties have been made before.

Wearing a cummerbund with a DB coat will provide a very unflattering bulge at your belly...definitely not sharp looking at all. If you (like me) REALLY are concerned about perspiration, then do go for the SB coat and cummerbund or vest. If you want to take your coat off, then do it. Who cares? No one will punch you in the face. (A vest will look much better without the coat, by the way, and it won't overheat you any more than a cummerbund will.)

Teacher · Apr 23, 2006

quote:Originally posted by tiger02

I have to disagree with the pumped-up AC thing. The venue should be catering to women with off the shoulder gowns and deep scoop backs. It's on us to be uncomfortable.

But nobody's terribly happy if the guy is wet with perspiration.

Intravenous · Apr 23, 2006

quote:Originally posted by Teacher

quote:Originally posted by Intravenous

Teacher, you said no one would see my waist anyway, with the jacket on. With the jacket off, what's wrong with not wanting to have the naked waistband? I don't want to sound like I'm arguing, but for me it will likely become too hot to wear the jacket, in which case I'll probably be asked to consider a SB peak as an alternative. I figure greater travesties have been made before.

Click to expand...

Wearing a cummerbund with a DB coat will provide a very unflattering bulge at your belly...definitely not sharp looking at all. If you (like me) REALLY are concerned about perspiration, then do go for the SB coat and cummerbund or vest. If you want to take your coat off, then do it. Who cares? No one will punch you in the face. (A vest will look much better without the coat, by the way, and it won't overheat you any more than a cummerbund will.)

How thick is a cummerbund? I've read that when trying on a suit jacket, it should be large enough to fit a sweater underneath. When shown the cummerbund at the rental place, it didn't look thick enough at all to produce a prominent bulge, unless of course the DB jacket is extremely fitted, which I don't think will happen.

Teacher · Apr 23, 2006

Thick enough. There's a reason DB isn't worn with a cummerbund. Even an athletic, trim person would not be flattered by such a combination.

eromlignod · Apr 23, 2006

quote:Originally posted by Teacher

Thick enough. There's a reason DB isn't worn with a cummerbund. Even an athletic, trim person would not be flattered by such a combination.

The simple reasons that a cummerbund is not worn with a DB jacket are that it never shows and it serves no purpose.

Don
Kansas City

Hanseat · Apr 24, 2006

Hi Intravenous,

the side-adjuster on the bow-tie is really not a problem, when you wear a turndown collar as you'll flip the collar over it anyway. Make sure though that the bow is not of that kind () but of that kind (). That way you can still untie it and enjoy the cool aftershow-party look.

With the shirt I mean to just get a plain poplin dresshirt. That is something you will need in the future, so why not buy it now?
With the studs and all- forget it, most of the stud sets I saw were really bad (black plastic just isn't Onyx). No one will notice their absence if there are some really nice mother-of-pearl buttons (Borrelli dies their tuxedo shirts like that). A pleated front isn't really that necesary either, IMO. With most DB's you will not see much of it regardless (you don't unbutton it, so no big deal).
You will see the difference of a nice, a bit shiney and uniformly white shirt with decent buttons to a polyester shirt with badly sewn on translucent buttons- that fabric usually isn't even uniformly colored (hold it against the light).

Do you know yet what to do with the shoes? Really, please do not rent them... Decent shoes can be had relatively cheaply and are extremly important to the comfort-factor as well. Plus per wearing they'll cost very little over time. And shoes can't really be cleaned like a shirt so they are either plastic (sweaty feet, doesn't properly move), or if it is leather the sole will take the shape of someone else's feet, you can't break them in and there will be some one else's sweat in them...
Black oxford will take you far in life, so get some decent shoes. You will need those anyway when you're in college (job interviews, social functions).

I can see if I can find a picture of me going out for prom.

I live in Bremen, Germany; that's where the good beer comes from (Beck's, St. Pauli girl though that is just a beer to fool americans as St. Pauli is in Hamburg), the Mercedes SLK and some other pretty cool stuff.

As I'm pretty active in the Model UN scene I've been to plenty of MUN's, many of which were either in scandinavia or involved scandinavians. The Danes and the Swedes I met (I lived at one's house for a week as a guest in Espegaerde, Denmark near Copenhagen) did the tuy a lot. In fact at one conference (BRIMUN) a Swede came in tux, for lack of a suit... but the fact is that I've been out there in discotheques a couple of times and have always seen guys in tuxedos, which is almost unthinkable in my quarters of the world).
Around here some guys do dress up in my age group (see myself in the picture above) but then again some agren't. Fair game for me...

I used to live in Pottstown, PA for a year (03/ 04 as an exchange student) but have seen a significant portion of the US (toured the US last summer for 6 weeks with a friend of mine; have seen soemthing like 14-15 states by now). So where are you from?
ANd, Berlin and Hamburg I know well (my 14-year old host brother comes over in teh summer again and I'll show him around there and a friend of mine who is in college now. I might be going to university in Hamburg- cool place. For some reason I don't like Berlin much) but the rest? Bad Driburg I've heard but don't really connect anything with it... Why is it that exchange programs between schools always have partner schools in areas that are... so not interesting. My alma mater in the US had an exchange with Krefeld, which is one of the most boring cities in this country...
Do you learn german in school?

The_Foxx · Apr 24, 2006

As long as it is 6x2 double breasted, i think it is a very classy, formal look-- very cool.

this one, for example, looks like a great option:

https://imageshack.us

Fogey · Apr 24, 2006

Those, such as myself, who wear DB dinner jackets are in good company:

tiger02 · Apr 24, 2006

quote:Originally posted by Hanseat
Why is it that exchange programs between schools always have partner schools in areas that are... so not interesting. My alma mater in the US had an exchange with Krefeld, which is one of the most boring cities in this country...
Do you learn german in school?

I live in one of those not so interesting places in Germany, Idar-Oberstein--middle of nowhere Rheinland Pfaltz. The real good beer is from Bavaria, sorry. Mmmm dunkelbier.

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today

Hanseat · Apr 24, 2006

Yeah, the beer in Bavaria is great too (though they know how to make some great beer in Baden Wuerttemberg too- but then they're good at pretty much everything).

Let's just say that one of my other options for university are Wuerzburg, Bavaria or Freiburg, BW precicely for the reason you have cited. They know how to make great beer, great food at decent prices, served in a very friendly atmosphere. It's a very different animal from northern Germany- our beer is a lot stronger and harsher regarding the taste. Great beer for sitting at the sea, but when in a beer garden you want something milder.

Double breasted dinner jacket

Intravenous

Spence

Concordia

Hanseat

Intravenous

Hanseat

Teacher

CPVS

Intravenous

tiger02

Teacher

Teacher

Intravenous

Teacher

eromlignod

Hanseat

The_Foxx

Fogey

tiger02

Hanseat

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