Correct fit of a suit shoulder

Hanseat · Oct 3, 2005

Good evening Gentlemen,

Recently I came to wonder about how to correctly assess the fit of a suit jacket. I'm very well aware that a suit's shoulder is one of the most complex and controversial parts of a jacket, yet there has to be a general rule where the shoulder of the jacket should end.

With a shirt I like the outer seam to sit right where my bone ends- therefore the sleeve gets curved outside a bit (less so with neapolitanean shirt shoulders for they have those little dimples to create more of a square shoulder). If I assume this to be correct (and having just recently read manton's article where he points out that the jacket' shoulder shall end right where the shoulder ends) I am wondering if the bone or the muscles are considered the outer end of the shoulders?

In practice a soft shoulder jacket where the outer seam of the jacket is where muscles end horizontally would hang oddly down as if the jacket were to wide. Hence I believe the jacket should be cut as wide as a shirt. Would this apply to more padded jackets as well?

Thanks

bystander · Feb 23, 2006

The point is worth exploring a little in my view. The approach to contructing a shoulder varies from tailor to tailor, and also between designers. On the street though, one sees increasingly more of shoulders that are clealry larger than real shoulder. Or so it seems to me perhaps.

a tailor · Feb 24, 2006

proper shoulder width is a matter of personal taste. stand in front of a mirror wearing your jacket. have someone stand behind you and place hands lightly on your biceps. now project a line straight up from those points. if the shoulders do not extend beyond those lines, they are withen reason. they may be narower than than that but, that again is personal taste.

Alex Di Pietropaolo

n/a · Feb 24, 2006

While we're on this topic, to what extent can the shoulders of a jacket be "narrowed" to bring them more in line with the actual shoulders? Is this done by removing the collar and pulling them together?

JD

Rich · Feb 24, 2006

quote:Originally posted by bystander

The point is worth exploring a little in my view. The approach to contructing a shoulder varies from tailor to tailor, and also between designers. On the street though, one sees increasingly more of shoulders that are clealry larger than real shoulder. Or so it seems to me perhaps.

There is quite definitely a trend towards shoulders that are too wide. It seems to go with sleeves that are too long. I wonder whether this may not be because people are fatter and need a larger waist relative to their shoulders (a large drop). This causes them to take a larger size RTW jacket which is too big at the shoulders. What they should be doing is fitting the shoulders first and then getting the jacket let out.

rojo · Feb 24, 2006

I don't think there is an absolute rule. A man with very narrow shoulders might elect to have jackets with a small amount of overhang at the shoulder to help "normalize" his silhouette. It's personal preference, body type, and tailoring styles, although a jacket that is too small and tight in the shoulders or one that is very obviously too large will not look good.

I have had the shoulders of a RTW jacket successfully brought in by an alterations tailor, by the way.

Chris H · Feb 24, 2006

What would be the correct fit with regard to the ivy league natural shoulder. Should it be a close fit to the shoulder or is some 'drop' acceptable.
(Apologies if this should have been posted as a new thread on the Trad forum).

Chris

n/a · Feb 24, 2006

quote:Originally posted by Rich

...What they should be doing is fitting the shoulders first and then getting the jacket let out.

Is this true? Is it better to get a jacket that fits in the shoulders but is tight in the chest, and then let out the chest? Does the average RTW have enough in the back seam (which is where I presume it would be let out) to accomadte an inch or so? Or would it be better to fit the chest, and then take in the shoulders?

JD

ChubbyTiger · Feb 24, 2006

Related question: Is it too small or too large shoulders (or both) that make the upper arm buckle in a little bit when your arms are at your side? Or is it just that the cut is off? I have one jacket that buckles just a little bit at the upper arm and I think it's a tad small around the shoulders. My other ones hang straight down from the shoulder.

CT

Rich · Feb 24, 2006

quote:Originally posted by JDGagnonJr

quote:Originally posted by Rich

...What they should be doing is fitting the shoulders first and then getting the jacket let out.

Click to expand...

Is this true? Is it better to get a jacket that fits in the shoulders but is tight in the chest, and then let out the chest? Does the average RTW have enough in the back seam (which is where I presume it would be let out) to accomadte an inch or so? Or would it be better to fit the chest, and then take in the shoulders?

JD

In my experience there's usually about a grand total of an inch available in the back seam + side seams that can be let out. Getting this done is much cheaper and safer than having the shoulders taken in. However, taking out the side jacket seams will give you more waist, but not a lot more chest, unless you change the arm holes. In the back seam there might be half an inch at the very most you can play with at chest level. Most alteration tailors I know would rather not take in shoulders - it's a lot of work and can easily go wrong. Of course a first class tailor can do anything - at a price.

Holdfast · Feb 24, 2006

quote:Originally posted by a tailor

proper shoulder width is a matter of personal taste. stand in front of a mirror wearing your jacket. have someone stand behind you and place hands lightly on your biceps. now project a line straight up from those points. if the shoulders do not extend beyond those lines, they are withen reason. they may be narower than than that but, that again is personal taste.

Alex Di Pietropaolo

This is the general rule I use too. I like the slight overhang that occurs when doing this, though I have a couple of narrower jackets too.

Allthingstrad · Feb 24, 2006

Flusser writes about how a main consideration in sholder fit is how large or small a suits sholders make your head look. Sholders that extend far out make your head and neck look diminuitive, and should be avoided by people who have smaller heads (lest they look like a pinhead!). The reverse holds true for Neil Cavuto types.

"Since it's a traditional, preppy look it's best if balanced by a relatively small four-in-hand knot." He sips his martini, recrossing his legs. "Next question?"

a tailor · Feb 25, 2006

quote:Originally posted by JDGagnonJr

quote:Originally posted by Rich

...What they should be doing is fitting the shoulders first and then getting the jacket let out.

Click to expand...

Is this true? Is it better to get a jacket that fits in the shoulders but is tight in the chest, and then let out the chest? Does the average RTW have enough in the back seam (which is where I presume it would be let out) to accomadte an inch or so? Or would it be better to fit the chest, and then take in the shoulders?

JD

the chest can not be let out in front. the back seam might have something to let out. but doing this may result in a hump shape in the back. fit the chest.

Alex Di Pietropaolo

Wuchak · Jun 2, 2006

Does anyone have a photo or diagram showing proper shoulder fit vs. too wide or too narrow? I've see the one that illustrates proportion to the head but none that show the shoulder seam in relation to the shoulder.

DavidRichards · Jun 2, 2006

a tailor said:
proper shoulder width is a matter of personal taste. stand in front of a mirror wearing your jacket. have someone stand behind you and place hands lightly on your biceps. now project a line straight up from those points. if the shoulders do not extend beyond those lines, they are withen reason. they may be narower than than that but, that again is personal taste.

Alex Di Pietropaolo

I agree with Alex (generally). The shoulder must fit properly - alterations to shoulders is expensive, difficult (and with a lesser tailor) unlikely to come out well.

However, there is also an element of style to the question. A New York or forward shoulder is larger, more aggressive than a soft shoulder traditional cut. That doesn't make it right or wrong, just a different sense of style. Likewise, Boss and Armani's shoulders are different (and larger) than typical. The expression of the shoulder is what gives each suit its own individuality.

Correct fit of a suit shoulder

Hanseat

bystander

a tailor

n/a

Rich

rojo

Chris H

n/a

ChubbyTiger

Rich

Holdfast

Allthingstrad

a tailor

Wuchak

DavidRichards

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