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CardsHockey

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
I ordered the below loafers from the AE shoe bank at a great price of $150 and can't find a reason why they are "seconds."

https://www.shoebank.com/FactorySecondInventory.php?STY=0262S&DIM=D&SIZE=100

My question is how much is a normal level of tightness in a new loafer? Some reviews said this loafer fits great out of the box while others said to size up 1/2 a size. I did not size up but stayed at 10D, which is what I wear in all other AE shoes. There is some tightness in my right foot on the outside of the shoe on my little toe, the vamp is rather tight across the top of my foot, and there is no way I could ever get these shoes on without a shoe horn - which is unlike my other loafers, not that I don't use a shoe horn with them. I've only walked around my house in them for 5 minutes and there isn't any pain, but I want shoes that are comfortable so I don't avoid wearing them.

It seems the toe box volume is a tad too small on my right foot. Left foot is OK overall. The shoebank has these shoes in 10.5D, but not in 10E. I'm weary about doing 10.5D because it may help my right foot but then I think my left foot will slip in the heel. I did do a Google search and searched this forum and found some advice which would imply these should work fine, and found other advice saying loafers should be 100% comfortable out of the box and the leather will barely stretch, if at all. This latter advice came from our very own Andy a few years ago.

This is my first pair of dress loafers of this type. My other loafers are a more casual Sperry Gold Cup loafer that fit pretty loose for a 10D but feel great. My other loafer is an AE Montecito in 10D on the "handsewn 555 last." The Montecito has a very low vamp and I remember the description for that shoe saying an exec at AE came up with the design due to being a hockey player with a high instep. I have no idea why/if being a hockey player causes a high instep, but I am a hockey player and I could never come close to closing up the laces on any of my AE oxfords - Park Ave, 5th Ave, McAllister all in 10D. So, perhaps my high instep makes me unsuitable for a loafer with a high vamp?

New, brown penny loafer vs my black montecito to show big difference in vamp. Though the low vamp does cause my heel to lift up as I walk and the more narrow 555 last of the Montecito did require some breaking in for my outside toe on my right foot.

New, brown penny loafer (top) vs current Sperry loafer to show difference in shape. They look similar here but definitely don't feel similar on my feet.
 

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#2 · (Edited)
Cards,
I wish I had some helpful advice for you. In my experience, shoes that are uncomfortable out of the box stay uncomfortable. But I know that others have had better experiences.
As you acknowledge, fit is a function of both size and last, and AE uses many lasts. A size 10D in one AE last can fit quite differently than a size 10D in another AE last. That said, lace-up shoes can be very forgiving and many gents can purchase such shoes with confidence in their regular size regardless of last. Because I have found loafers to be much much tougher, I no longer purchase them online.
I wish you the very best of luck.
Mike
 
#3 ·
Agreed with Mike above.

If you are able, it would be easiest to visit your local AE and try on loafers in many different sizes in their various lasts so you can get a good fit. I have flat feet and haven't been able to find a good fit; your high arches might present a similar challenge.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
cellochris said:
Agreed with Mike above.

If you are able, it would be easiest to visit your local AE and try on loafers in many different sizes in their various lasts so you can get a good fit. I have flat feet and haven't been able to find a good fit; your high arches might present a similar challenge.
Click to expand...
The closest AE is an hour from me. I may give Von Maur a visit tonight to compare with other AE loafers - they usually have the Grayson in stock.

One website said loafers should be able to be slipped on. Is this true? I definitely could never slip mine on without a shoehorn. I'm just unsure on how a dress loafer should fit so I don't want to think it doesn't fit if it does.

Perhaps I'll have to make the trip out to my AE store.
 
#5 ·
CardsHockey said:
The closest AE is an hour from me. I may give Von Maur a visit tonight to compare with other AE loafers - they usually have the Grayson in stock.

One website said loafers should be able to be slipped on. Is this true? I definitely could never slip mine on without a shoehorn. I'm just unsure on how a dress loafer should fit so I don't want to think it doesn't fit if it does.

Perhaps I'll have to make the trip out to my AE store.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about the slip on aspect of loafers as I can't get any that fit!
If you do make the trip, be sure to call them beforehand to check that they have the loafers in the sizing variations you'd like to try.
 
#6 ·
My issues with Shoebank have been well-documented here. After going through several pairs of Patriots and having none of them fit, I switched over to the Cavanaugh. I ordered my normal size (10.5 D), and though the shoe had no blemishes or defects, it was uncomfortably small on me. I went to the retail location by my office and tried on Cavanaugh firsts in 10.5D, and they fit like a glove. After all my issues with Shoebank, the manager (who I'd gotten to know fairly well) sold me firsts at the Shoebank price.

point being- the "defect" could very well be a mismarked size.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Thanks to all responses. To sum up my long post to encourage more replies, my posts comes down to the two below questions.

1. Should I be able to slip on penny loafers? There is no way I could at all slip these on. However, my left foot feels pretty good overall once I get it in, even though I could not slip that one on either.

2. Do leather shoes actually stretch over time? I've found conflicting answers online and, as noted above, our dear Andy says "no" and advises all shoes should be comfortable out of the box as there is no stretching.
 
#8 ·
This may be an overly simple approach, but it has been working for armies since the invention of shoes and for me, especially with loafers, for about forty years. Buy shoes too tight - one half or a full size down. Put them on over very wet socks. Walk them dry. The shoes will fit and very likely not stretch noticeably further.
 
#12 · (Edited)
CardsHockey said:
Thanks to all responses. To sum up my long post to encourage more replies, my posts comes down to the two below questions.

1. Should I be able to slip on penny loafers? There is no way I could at all slip these on. However, my left foot feels pretty good overall once I get it in, even though I could not slip that one on either.

2. Do leather shoes actually stretch over time? I've found conflicting answers online and, as noted above, our dear Andy says "no" and advises all shoes should be comfortable out of the box as there is no stretching.
Click to expand...
1. Yes- or they shouldn't take a huge amount of effort to put on. I use a shoehorn with mine so as not to screw up the heel counter, but it's not difficult.

2. Yes and no- the stretch a bit, but if they're completely uncomfortable out of the box, then they'll almost never fit well. She'll doesn't stretch though- my comment is related to calf.

jfo2010 said:
I suppose you think that's a clever comment and gives me an irresistible need to answer. But anyway, I'll play along.
I use the same sales associate for every purchase.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I read it as an actual question- the only time I've ever not been charged the $10 restocking fee was when the manager of the store I go to took pity on me for my bad luck with Shoebank and offered to send them back himself (the same situation where he sold me firsts for the same price as seconds).
 
#13 ·
godan said:
This may be an overly simple approach, but it has been working for armies since the invention of shoes and for me, especially with loafers, for about forty years. Buy shoes too tight - one half or a full size down. Put them on over very wet socks. Walk them dry. The shoes will fit and very likely not stretch noticeably further.
Click to expand...
Interesting! Have you done this with shell cordovan or only calf?
 
#14 ·
IME, loafers that fit great out of the box tend not to fit so great once they are broken in - way too much heel slip. So I like my new loafers to be be snug, if not tight, in terms of width out of the box. In terms of length, there should be enough room so that my toes don't feel squished and I can wiggle my toes. They will loosen up a bit once broken in.
 
#15 ·
cellochris said:
Interesting! Have you done this with shell cordovan or only calf?
Click to expand...
Never with cordovan. I occasionally make holsters from horsehide and have found it quite difficult to wet mold and form. I don't think the old Army "fill your boots with water and walk them dry" method would work with cordovan. However, I have found that all other leathers stretch over time. That's why I like the stretch wet to fit method. It has always worked for me and zillions of other soldiers.
 
Discussion starter · #16 · (Edited)
jfo2010 said:
I suppose you think that's a clever comment and gives me an irresistible need to answer. But anyway, I'll play along.
I use the same sales associate for every purchase.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I can see why you thought I was trying to be clever, but it was a legit question of mine. My policy on things like this is "It never hurts to ask" so I did not know if you also have that policy and also happened to have really nice people on the other end of the phone each time who were willing to do it since most people don't even ask about the possibility. But, the reason why you have free returns makes more sense!
 
Discussion starter · #17 · (Edited)
Mike75 said:
IME, loafers that fit great out of the box tend not to fit so great once they are broken in - way too much heel slip. So I like my new loafers to be be snug, if not tight, in terms of width out of the box. In terms of length, there should be enough room so that my toes don't feel squished and I can wiggle my toes. They will loosen up a bit once broken in.
Click to expand...
What about in terms of overall toe box/shoe volume (i.e., tightness/snugness on the top of my foot)? These loafers have a high vamp that go high on my foot - unlike my other, lower vamp loafers. I'm OK with the snug width, but I am concerned about the overall shoe volume not adjusting enough.

ETA: Length is fine so I'm concerned about taking others' advice to size up a 1/2 size as that might throw off other things about the fit. Plus, I'm not sure sizing up a 1/2 size solves my shoe volume problem causing tightness on top. I'm thinking this last just may not work and I'll sadly have to return this shoes that are such a great price.
 
#18 ·
CardsHockey said:
What about in terms of overall toe box/shoe volume (i.e., tightness/snugness on the top of my foot)? These loafers have a high vamp that go high on my foot - unlike my other, lower vamp loafers. I'm OK with the snug width, but I am concerned about the overall shoe volume not adjusting enough.

ETA: Length is fine so I'm concerned about taking others' advice to size up a 1/2 size as that might throw off other things about the fit. Plus, I'm not sure sizing up a 1/2 size solves my shoe volume problem causing tightness on top. I'm thinking this last just may not work and I'll sadly have to return this shoes that are such a great price.
Click to expand...
Is it so snug that its painful?
 
#20 ·
godan said:
Never with cordovan. I occasionally make holsters from horsehide and have found it quite difficult to wet mold and form. I don't think the old Army "fill your boots with water and walk them dry" method would work with cordovan. However, I have found that all other leathers stretch over time. That's why I like the stretch wet to fit method. It has always worked for me and zillions of other soldiers.
Click to expand...
Good to know. This might be the solution I'm looking for with calf slip ons. Do you think it would be OK to do this with lined Suede loafers?

CardsHockey said:
I can see why you thought I was trying to be clever, but it was a legit question of mine. My policy on things like this is "It never hurts to ask" so I did not know if you also have that policy and also happened to have really nice people on the other end of the phone each time who were willing to do it since most people don't even ask about the possibility. But, the reason why you have free returns makes more sense!
Click to expand...
Agreed. A good relationship with a sales associate can go a long way.
 
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