Starting the bespoke process (suggestions welcome!)

immanuelrx · Apr 24, 2016

Hello all. As some of you know, I have been talking about commissioning a suit here in Korea. Well I have started the process with a shop called Sartoria Vanni.
https://vannibespoke.tumblr.com
https://www.vanni.co.kr

I will be commissioning a navy suit and a navy blazer. I have chosen the blazer fabric. It is the lower cloth:
HFW

The choice of suit fabric has not bee so easy. I can't choose between the following two Harrison fabric:

And the lower Holland and Sherry fabric:

Here is a pic of them next to each other:

I am leaning toward the harrison fabric and the lower harrison fabric at that. I LOVE the way the Holland and Sherry fabric feels, but it is probably too dark for my only navy suit. Anyways comments and suggestions are always welcome. Once I get back from a trip to the states I will choose a fabric and officially start the suit and blazer. I will post pics during the process.

momsdoc · Apr 24, 2016

My choice is probably skewed by the resolution and lighting tricks of photography, and the fact that one cannot feel the cloth or how it moves from a photo. With those restrictions in mind my ranking is :
1. H&S upper
2. H Of E upper
3. H of E lower
4. H&S lower

They are all fine looking fabrics of unquestioned quality, so it really is splitting hairs. The H of E both have a nubbier horizontal crosshatch appearance, the upper less so. The lower one seemed to have this jump out immediately upon viewing. The lower H&S has a more pronounced diagonal twill pattern which would look like a herringbone had alternate rows been running in opposite direction. That leaves my first 2 choices as the smoothest finest texture of the bunch. The upper H of E has the best navy color from my monitor, and the upper H&S has more grey hue than the others. After going back and forth, my initial gut reaction is what drives my above listing.

Good luck with the process, any of the 4 will look great, and once finished, you won't even remember what the subtle differences were that caused you difficulty in deciding between them.

CLTesquire · Apr 24, 2016

I like the color of the Harrison's better than the H&S just because there's a little more blue involved. I have 2 solid navy suits; one is closer in color to the Harrison's fabric and one is closer in color to the H&S. The slighter shade is worn much more frequently. In terms of the 2 Harrison's, I also prefer the upper Harrison's over the lower, although either should make up into a really nice suit.

Good luck to you! Should be fun!

JLibourel · Apr 24, 2016

The Harrison's Frontier is a hopsack. This means that it is a little more open weave and somewhat cooler than a worsted suiting of the same weight. It is also a trifle more casual than worsted, but only a clothing maven would detect this. Harrison's Frontier makes a very good year-round suiting in my part of the world. I have two suits made from this fabric. I can certainly recommend it.

It have no experience with the H&S fabric in question, hence cannot comment.

immanuelrx · Apr 24, 2016

Gentlemen thank you for your input.

momsdoc said:
My choice is probably skewed by the resolution and lighting tricks of photography, and the fact that one cannot feel the cloth or how it moves from a photo. With those restrictions in mind my ranking is :
1. H&S upper
2. H Of E upper
3. H of E lower
4. H&S lower

momsdoc, I have a question for you. If this were your only navy suit, would the H&S still be your top choice? What is really holding me back from picking the H&S is how dark of a navy it is. It feels fantastic, better than any of the others I have felt. I am just wondering if I need a more bluish navy suit. Its so tough on these swatches because it isn't a suit that I can throw on and say, "this is it!" or "Maybe not."

CLTesquire said:
I like the color of the Harrison's better than the H&S just because there's a little more blue involved.

That was my initial reaction when comparing the two. I think, had I not liked the feel of the H&S so much I would have picked Harrisons.

JLibourel said:
The Harrison's Frontier is a hopsack. This means that it is a little more open weave and somewhat cooler than a worsted suiting of the same weight. It is also a trifle more casual than worsted, but only a clothing maven would detect this.

See, I could tell it was different, but I am not that good at telling what type of fabric it is yet. So it is hopsack, which is more casual than worsted. Do you suggest steering clear of hopsack as my only navy suit currently?

momsdoc · Apr 25, 2016

Ah, JL nailed the question I had of texture. I was viewing on my iPad. Now on my computer monitor, and with the benefit of hindsight, I can see the Harrison's are hopsack. That makes things easier.

If this was my one and only navy suit, I would want it to be as formal as possible. So the H&S fabrics fit the bill. I would prefer a darker navy for the same reasons. Therefore my choice remains the same.

Matt S · Apr 25, 2016

Any of those would be great for a blazer. The serge cloths, however, would be better for a suit than the hopsack cloths (which are best for only a blazer). Hopsack can wear out fast in trousers. Nothing is too dark for a navy suit. Contrary to what people above have said, both the serge and the hopsack cloths are worsteds. Worsted is a type of yarn, and all of these cloths are woven from worsted yarns. The difference is the weaves.

JLibourel · Apr 25, 2016

As to hopsack being less formal, I married my present wife on her patrician family's palatial estate while wearing a hopsack suit (not one of my current ones). I am quite positive none of her family noted that I was wearing hopsack, not smooth, worsted nor gave a damn!

immanuelrx · Apr 25, 2016

momsdoc said:
Ah, JL nailed the question I had of texture. I was viewing on my iPad. Now on my computer monitor, and with the benefit of hindsight, I can see the Harrison's are hopsack. That makes things easier.

If this was my one and only navy suit, I would want it to be as formal as possible. So the H&S fabrics fit the bill. I would prefer a darker navy for the same reasons. Therefore my choice remains the same.

So funny thing, I happened to be wearing navy trousers today and I realized that my navy trousers are about as dark as the H&S fabrics I was worried about. I didn't even think to compare the shades of navy to the navy trousers I already have. Problem solved. H&S is the fabric I will be using. Thanks

immanuelrx · Apr 25, 2016

Since I have decided on my navy suit, I wanted to revisit my choice on the blazer. As stated above, I went with the HFW cloth. It is a heavier fabric (13-14oz). Hopsack has been mentioned as a good blazer fabric and even suggested as the best choice (if I understand one post) for a blazer. With the Harrisons fabric being hopsack and 10-11oz in weight, would Harrisons be the way to go over the HFW fabric posted in the beginning? I am just curious as to why hopsack is liked as a blazer fabric. Thanks as always gents.

Matt S · Apr 25, 2016

immanuelrx said:
Since I have decided on my navy suit, I wanted to revisit my choice on the blazer. As stated above, I went with the HFW cloth. It is a heavier fabric (13-14oz). Hopsack has been mentioned as a good blazer fabric and even suggested as the best choice (if I understand one post) for a blazer. With the Harrisons fabric being hopsack and 10-11oz in weight, would Harrisons be the way to go over the HFW fabric posted in the beginning? I am just curious as to why hopsack is liked as a blazer fabric. Thanks as always gents.

Hopsack is a good blazer cloth because the texture gives a solid jacket more interest. But serge is good for a blazer too, though it is more formal.

Balfour · Apr 25, 2016

My OCD commends a serge blazer and a serge suit in precisely the same dark navy cloth, with two pairs of trousers for the suit.

(If from the same roll of cloth, it even has the added advantage of if you burn a hole in the suit jacket you can swap over the suit buttons to the blazer!

)

immanuelrx · Apr 25, 2016

Balfour said:
My OCD commends a serge blazer and a serge suit in precisely the same dark navy cloth, with two pairs of trousers for the suit.

(If from the same roll of cloth, it even has the added advantage of if you burn a hole in the suit jacket you can swap over the suit buttons to the blazer!)

To be honest, I wouldn't overlook this idea. With the way the H&S fabric feels, I wouldn't mind it at all. I plan on getting the two pair of trousers and vest as well. I will also be bringing in your checklist when I go in to officially pick the fabric explain the details of the suit. This really is exciting! If things work out, I might just stay in Korea longer to build up my wardrobe.

Balfour · Apr 25, 2016

immanuelrx said:
To be honest, I wouldn't overlook this idea. With the way the H&S fabric feels, I wouldn't mind it at all. I plan on getting the two pair of trousers and vest as well. I will also be bringing in your checklist when I go in to officially pick the fabric explain the details of the suit. This really is exciting! If things work out, I might just stay in Korea longer to build up my wardrobe.

:beer:

immanuelrx · Jul 30, 2016

I wanted to post an update to the process. I am currently through my second fitting for my blazer. I wanted to post pictures of my first fitting, but the tailor started dismantling it and changing it before i could take a picture. With that, here are pictures of my second fitting today before the tailor got to it again.

As you can see, we didn't get too many pictures in until the tailor was at it again.

Comments and suggestions are always welcome. I think the blazer is coming along nicely.

immanuelrx · Jul 30, 2016

On a side note, the tailor shop is down the road from the just opened Shake Shake. The only one in Korea. I decided after all that hard work getting fitted, i deserved some Shake Shack. I found it...

Then I decided to pass...

As much as I like Shake Shack, it isn't worth this line.

Flanderian · Jul 30, 2016

immanuelrx said:
I wanted to post an update to the process. I am currently through my second fitting for my blazer. I wanted to post pictures of my first fitting, but the tailor started dismantling it and changing it before i could take a picture. With that, here are pictures of my second fitting today before the tailor got to it again.

As you can see, we didn't get too many pictures in until the tailor was at it again.

Comments and suggestions are always welcome. I think the blazer is coming along nicely.

First, I wish to thank you for these excellent photos and for being willing to share your experience with us all.

I think that's shaping up to be a great looking jacket. And I'll be candid, I never have been all that good about picking out small issues from a first fitting. If there are any, and I couldn't comment one way or the other, they escape me. But as to the broader issues of cut and fit, if it's what you want, you could fairly much wear it as-is upon completion, IMO. But if it were for me, I'd want a few anti-fashion changes, though this cut is in no way radical to my eye. I'd want a slightly lower gorge and button stance, but that's me, and I don't think that can be accommodated without a major re-cutting. Beyond that, I'd like a tad less waist suppression, and the same across shoulder blades in back. Nothing radical, 1/2" to and 1" tops. I require a bit of ease in my jackets.

And the sleeves look a trifle short, with the right shorter than your left.

immanuelrx · Jul 30, 2016

Flanderian said:
First, I wish to thank you for these excellent photos and for be willing to share your experience with us all.

I think that's shaping up to be a great looking jacket. And I'll be candid, I never have been all that good about picking out small issues from a first fitting. If there are any, and I couldn't comment one way or the other, they escape me. But as to the broader issues of cut and fit, if it's what you want, you could fairly much wear it as-is upon completion, IMO. But if it were for me, I'd want a few anti-fashion changes, though this cut is in no way radical to my eye. I'd want a slightly lower gorge and button stance, but that's me, and I don't think that can be accommodated without a major re-cutting. Beyond that, I'd like a tad less waist suppression, and the same across shoulder blades in back. Nothing radical, 1/2" to and 1" tops. I require a bit of ease in my jackets.

And the sleeves look a trifle short, with the right shorter than your left.

Thank you Flanderian for your comments. I agree with you on the sleeves and requested them moved lower slightly. Both the tailor and I did recognize the difference in sleeve length between the arms. As far as the waist and back, it does look a bit more fitted. Considering this is my first bespoke anything, I almost feel hesitant to say too much as I don't want to mess up their finished product. That feels silly saying, but I don't know this process very well. I can look at a finished product and make changes, but the bespoke process seems a little harder to determine. For me anyways. I don't know how hard it is to adjust the back across the shoulder blades, but the waist should be an easy fix and I might mention it the next time I am in. As far as the gorge and button stance, I have no idea honestly. I have a hard time picturing it. I think once it is finished I will have a better understand of the process and will be able to fine tune the navy suit which is next up after the blazer.

Flanderian · Jul 30, 2016

immanuelrx said:
Thank you Flanderian for your comments. I agree with you on the sleeves and requested them moved lower slightly. Both the tailor and I did recognize the difference in sleeve length between the arms. As far as the waist and back, it does look a bit more fitted. Considering this is my first bespoke anything, I almost feel hesitant to say too much as I don't want to mess up their finished product. That feels silly saying, but I don't know this process very well. I can look at a finished product and make changes, but the bespoke process seems a little harder to determine. For me anyways. I don't know how hard it is to adjust the back across the shoulder blades, but the waist should be an easy fix and I might mention it the next time I am in. As far as the gorge and button stance, I have no idea honestly. I have a hard time picturing it. I think once it is finished I will have a better understand of the process and will be able to fine tune the navy suit which is next up after the blazer.

As I suggested, I share your difficulty in assessing much detail from a first fitting. Hopefully you've seen a couple finished examples of your tailor's work being worn. If you like their fit, my comments concerning changes may be superfluous. And I agree it should not be difficult to add 1" at the waist from the various seams if desired, either at a subsequent fitting or later. I'm not sure either what would have to be done at the shoulders, but it would likely be a bit more involved, but not impossible. And if you're happy with the look and fit, you're the man it's important to satisfy.

It might be interesting to ask your tailor whether he thinks perhaps a 1/2" more cloth at the rear of each shoulder might offer a little ease and a cleaner back when you're not standing still. It will both look and fit somewhat differently once it's made up. Surprisingly, I've experienced jackets that have both grown slightly snugger, or seemingly looser once finished. Though logic would suggest that once you get the added structure it should fit more snugly, that wasn't always the case.

Searching_Best_Fit · Jul 30, 2016

If I may say something, I think the button stance looks ok. The problem that may be seen as there is too mich overlap on the lapels, making it as a mini double breast near the button. That reduces the opening of shirt, thust gives the illusion of high button stance.

If you imagine the jacket with regular button at the top cross point at the basted line. The button stance looks kosher as per your proportion.

On the other hands, I do have one question for OP, that is, do you typically stand in this posture with arms forward, rounded shoulders, palms facing back like that in a dojo of taikwando? You look really tense in the photo, and I fear it may distort the fit at the complete product.

Correct me if I am wrong, since this is the second fitting, and nothing is really sewed except basted, any change should be fairly easy at this stage. Therefore, if you have any concern, I think you sould raise it to the tailor until both of you can work to the complete satisfaction before he finish up the work.

That said, there are wrinkles on the sleeve and under armpit at the back, also the sleeve head. I am not sure if that is design feature or not but just call out things I see. Hopefully this can be useful for you, and thanks againfor sharing your experience.

Starting the bespoke process (suggestions welcome!)

immanuelrx

momsdoc

CLTesquire

JLibourel

immanuelrx

momsdoc

Matt S

JLibourel

immanuelrx

immanuelrx

Matt S

Balfour

immanuelrx

Balfour

immanuelrx

immanuelrx

Flanderian

immanuelrx

Flanderian

Searching_Best_Fit

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