What kinds of shirt collar work without a tie? What kinds don't?
Collar types without tie
Estel
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I think both spread collars and point collars work without ties. YMMV
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755 Posts
Buttondowns look great without ties. Cutaway and tab collars, not so much.
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1,112 Posts
Button downs are the only collar I would ever wear without a tie. Those long pointed collars without a tie remind me of fly-away collars of the 1970s. Not good.
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1,335 Posts
To my eye an open spread-collar shirt is lost when worn with a jacket. You need a collar with some vertical integrity in such cases, making me opt for a standard point collar or button-down.
Illustration of IMO a great open collar worn with a jacket (thanks to Charles Tyrwhitt)...
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Illustration of IMO a great open collar worn with a jacket (thanks to Charles Tyrwhitt)...
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A semi-spread collar, that is one that's about 4" spread from point to point, will usually look good. Though it also depends on tie space and the height of the collar band, which affect the slope of the points.
... every other collar besides button-down is a long, pointed, fly-away collar? :icon_scratch: Help me out here.
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No tie with or without a jacket?
I think you can get away with more shirt types, sans tie - if you add a sport jacket. OCBD will always work, others really vary on the shirt in question and the jacket or lack of.
For immediate practical purposes, without a jacket (but potentially with a sweater) is of more use to me. But I'm interested in with-jacket answers as well, and interested in knowing if they differ.
I think you got your answers:
Button-downs are the most versatile w/o ties. In my opinion, they look the best with sweaters.
If you are going for a spread or pointed collars, it is really going to depend on how wide the two points of the collars are. I think Jovan's rule of thumb is good guidance: 4" from point to point. But, whether it looks good also depends on the shape and size of your own face.
In other words, if you insist on wearing spread collars without a tie, you are going to have to wear it and see if it looks good.
Button-downs are the most versatile w/o ties. In my opinion, they look the best with sweaters.
If you are going for a spread or pointed collars, it is really going to depend on how wide the two points of the collars are. I think Jovan's rule of thumb is good guidance: 4" from point to point. But, whether it looks good also depends on the shape and size of your own face.
In other words, if you insist on wearing spread collars without a tie, you are going to have to wear it and see if it looks good.
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Buttondowns and points will always look good. Both will draw attention to your face, which according to many is the ultimate goal. Spreads can be good too, but not all are created equal. Medium spreads look great. Cutaways look horrid.
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May I say Grayson, what a great photo that is! You should submit to the WAYWT threads.
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it is not just coincidence that this is a British shirt, (even if actually made in Turkey). As the UK does not wear button downs as we do, many of the shirtmakers have,and continue to specifically design collars that are intended to be worn open. We in the US are far behind with respect to this type of design. Personally, I stick to open BD collars for both tradition as well as aesthetic considerations.
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A good point. With respect to our Estel, she appears to be slighter in build than the average man, so those smaller, fashionable collars we detest may actually look okay on her.
In the end you kind of just have to try out a lot of things and see what works. For instance, I've determined that 4-5" spread collars look good on me, but are best with a taller collar band. Sadly that's hard to find off the rack, but at this rate most of my shirts will be custom anyway.
Indeed. Cutaway collars can look okay on some guys (I still don't really like them), but like tab collars are designed to only be worn with a tie. Especially with a sport coat -- the points pretty much disappear under the jacket collar.
I think Ledbury (an American company that produces shirts in Poland) has this down pretty well. Their collars work well with or without a tie, due to both the construction (collar band fused from outside in) and the lowered second button. I wish all my shirts were made like that.
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That's an interesting detail about the collar. Still, $125 is more than I will pay for a shirt made in Poland.
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I would be surprised to learn that shirt makers in Poland were any less skilled than those elsewhere.
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I did not mean to give the impresion that the skill level in Poland is less than anywhere else. My refusal to spend $125 on a shirt made there is not about the skill of the workers. It is that the maker/merchant is not paying them the same wage they would pay in the US or UK. I do not choose to spend that much on a shirt, to reward the merchant/maker with the extra profit they gain by outsourcing jobs.
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