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phr33dom

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
My black tie kit comprises a shawl lapelled black jacket, black pants with a waist adjustment tab at each side, white marcella shirt having a Prince of Wales fold down collar, tie-youself black bat bow tie, black cummerbund, black calf shoes.

Given that the pants have side adjustment tabs, would it be incorrect to wear suspenders? There are no buttons for the suspenders but they could be sewn in.

One other thought, if suspenders are acceptable in this case, which would be more correct, white or black?
 
I am surprised that the trousers do not have brace buttons. All of my black tie outfits had both the side adjusters and brace/ suspender buttons. Personally trousers hang better with suspenders. By the way men wear trousers and women wear pants. Did you purchase this outfit in London?
 
suspenders are more comfortable and make your trousers hang better, I'd definitly put buttons on, I have done so myself on my black tie rig and a few 3 piece suits. I think both black and white suspenders would be correct, since they are not actually supposed to be seen. Since you are wearing a cummerbund and not a waistcoat people might get a glimpse of it when you are moving around, so I would go with a white one if I had a choice.
 
Side tabs are not exclusive of braces/suspenders as belts are. And the waist of the trousers will be covered, so who will know that your trousers have tabs (assuming that they even know/notice/care that you are wearing suspenders)?
 
By the way men wear trousers and women wear pants.
Preposterous nonsense, at least in American English. The OED recognizes the use of this for men's leg-covering garments well back into the 19th century, and trousers is a distinctly minority term in America. Strange that a member in Florida would correct someone from London for a usage that is quite correct in America. Do you chastise your fellow Floridians for calling lifts elevators, or lorries trucks? More importantly, how does the waitress at Waffle House react when you ask her for a banger? ;)
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Side tabs are not exclusive of braces/suspenders as belts are. And the waist of the trousers will be covered, so who will know that your trousers have tabs (assuming that they even know/notice/care that you are wearing suspenders)?
Yes, this is true but I don't care so much what others can see or not see. I want to dress correctly and knowing that I am inappropriately attired, even in ways that others cannot see, is what matters to me.
 
phr33dom, I'm not sure there are any such things as "inappropriate" choices that are completely undetectable to others. IOW, if it cannot be seen, then it can't be wrong. Otherwise, you'd have people here holding forth that evening boxer shorts should be white only, and that blue end-on-end are day boxers only. Or some such silliness.
 
It's unlikely that waist tabs are going to hold your trousers/pants in place as well as suspenders do, so by all means get buttons sewn in. For black-tie braces, my own choice is Thurston's in black boxcloth with white ends (I am lucky enough to own some w/ the classic 'goat 'n' gut' ends that aren't made anymore).
 
phr33dom, I'm not sure there are any such things as "inappropriate" choices that are completely undetectable to others. IOW, if it cannot be seen, then it can't be wrong. Otherwise, you'd have people here holding forth that evening boxer shorts should be white only, and that blue end-on-end are day boxers only. Or some such silliness.
I prefer white poplin with MOP fly buttons.
 
My black tie kit comprises a shawl lapelled black jacket, black pants with a waist adjustment tab at each side, white marcella shirt having a Prince of Wales fold down collar, tie-youself black bat bow tie, black cummerbund, black calf shoes.

Given that the pants have side adjustment tabs, would it be incorrect to wear suspenders? There are no buttons for the suspenders but they could be sewn in.

One other thought, if suspenders are acceptable in this case, which would be more correct, white or black?
I agree with everyone here about wearing braces with your type of trousers. However, what has gone unsaid is that if you wear suspenders, the correct garment to wear also is the waistcoat or vest, not the cummerband. You are not supposed to wear suspenders with the cummerband, unless you follow the school that if no one can see it, then it must be alright, which it appears that you do not. Also, don't forget the patent leather shoes, black calf shoes won't cut it.
 
I agree with everyone here about wearing braces with your type of trousers. However, what has gone unsaid is that if you wear suspenders, the correct garment to wear also is the waistcoat or vest, not the cummerband. You are not supposed to wear suspenders with the cummerband, unless you follow the school that if no one can see it, then it must be alright, which it appears that you do not. Also, don't forget the patent leather shoes, black calf shoes won't cut it.
Not true. Braces can definitely be worn with a cummerbund. In black tie, a cummerbund and a waistcoat serve the same purpose, and both are independent of how you hold up your trousers. And black calf shoes are fine as long as they have no brogueing and are spit shined. Patent leather is preferable but calf can make do.
 
Not true. Braces can definitely be worn with a cummerbund. In black tie, a cummerbund and a waistcoat serve the same purpose, and both are independent of how you hold up your trousers. And black calf shoes are fine as long as they have no brogueing and are spit shined. Patent leather is preferable but calf can make do.
Your statement is incorrect. First, the fact that you would wear suspenders and a cummerbund at the same time doesn't make my stament untrue. Second, and most importantly, the reason you don't wear suspenders with a cummerbund has nothing to do with function but rather with looks and propriety. Suspenders are considered underwear and are not meant to be seen by anyone. This is one of the primary reasons that you never remove your jacket at a formal event.

You are correct, however, in saying that both the cummerbund and the waistcoat serve the same purpose and are both independent of how you hold your trousers. I would add that although their purpose is to cover the waistband of your trousers, the cummerbund is the informal of the two pieces and it is to be worn with a shawl collar jacket, while the waistcoat is to be worn with a peak lapeled jacket.

Agree on all counts, except I'd say calf isn't just fine, but preferable to patent in the real world.
Whether you prefer to wear calf leather as opposed to patent leather is not the point, it's still not appropriate or conforming to the formal dress, or in this case, semi-formal evening dress code.

Having said that, it is up to each individual to wear whatever they want...but then you need to get away from attempting to create the illusion of following sartorial or etiquette rules.
 
Your statement is incorrect. First, the fact that you would wear suspenders and a cummerbund at the same time doesn't make my stament untrue. Second, and most importantly, the reason you don't wear suspenders with a cummerbund has nothing to do with function but rather with looks and propriety. Suspenders are considered underwear and are not meant to be seen by anyone. This is one of the primary reasons that you never remove your jacket at a formal event.

You are correct, however, in saying that both the cummerbund and the waistcoat serve the same purpose and are both independent of how you hold your trousers. I would add that although their purpose is to cover the waistband of your trousers, the cummerbund is the informal of the two pieces and it is to be worn with a shawl collar jacket, while the waistcoat is to be worn with a peak lapeled jacket.

Whether you prefer to wear calf leather as opposed to patent leather is not the point, it's still not appropriate or conforming to the formal dress, or in this case, semi-formal evening dress code.

Having said that, it is up to each individual to wear whatever they want...but then you need to get away from attempting to create the illusion of following sartorial or etiquette rules.
I still don't understand your reasoning for not wearing braces with a cummerbund. As you said, the dinner jacket won't be removed and the braces will not be seen. What about backless waistcoats? They are merely there for looks but they aren't attractive in the least without a jacket on. It's the same for wearing braces without a waistcoat. But as long as your jacket is on it doesn't matter.
And cummerbunds and waistcoats can each be worn with shawl collar and peak lapel dinner jackets. Some people might prefer a cummerbund with a shawl collar dinner jacket and a waistcoat with a peak lapel dinner jacket but it's no rule.
 
Suspenders are considered underwear and are not meant to be seen by anyone.
Perhaps by 16 people, worldwide, assuming we are writing in the year 2010 and not 1890. I can say with great confidence that people have been showing suspenders with impunity for at least 30 years, if not 100.

In any event, this is entirely beside the point unless there's some reason to believe that people wearing cummerbunds take their jackets off more often than people wearing vests. Typically, you can see the suspenders under either. They look slightly (but only slightly) funny under a vest, and not funny at all under a cummerbund.

This is one of the primary reasons that you never remove your jacket at a formal event.
People do, in fact, remove their jackets at formal events. In any event, the word "reason" here defies understanding, considering (a) people often wear suspenders at non-formal events and (b) the whole thrust of your post seems to be toward telling people not to wear suspenders at formal events. I'm not sure I follow why the primary reason for not removing a jacket at a formal event is to avoid showing suspenders that aren't necessarily there, as opposed to removing a jacket at work, when they very well may be.

the cummerbund is the informal of the two pieces and it is to be worn with a shawl collar jacket, while the waistcoat is to be worn with a peak lapeled jacket.
You can cheerfully wear them in any of the four possible combinations.

Whether you prefer to wear calf leather as opposed to patent leather is not the point, it's still not appropriate or conforming to the formal dress, or in this case, semi-formal evening dress code.
I will pass that on to the 98% of people who don't wear patent leather shoes to formal events, as well as the remaining 2%, almost all of whom got their patent leather shoes in a set together with their rented tuxedo and pre-tied bow-tie.
 
Except in the case of opera pumps the view that calf is more correct than patent for black tie is patently (groan) absurd. Well-polished calf certainly may be "acceptable," but preferable? Not a chance.

As for the OP's question, there is nothing wrong with wearing braces with trousers (I agree with Cuff that "pants" is correct too) with adjustable tabs. And I further agree that braces are the most comfortable option for most men.

Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing braces with either a cummerbund or a vest; either works fine. The only advantage of a vest over a cummerbund is that the braces won't be exposed in the unlikely event your jacket is removed. I have attended several dozen black tie events and cannot recall gentlemen removing their jackets on these occasions. If such removals occured, a few ladies and gentlemen might look askance at such relaxed behavior, but not because braces were visible. Of course there will always be a small handful of people who are slaves to rules that have never really existed (such as "braces are underwear and should not be seen" and "sentences should not be ended with a preposition" and similar nonsense), but while one should not go out of one's way to antagonize these undeputized vigilantes one should not allow them to affect your own sound judgment.

And finally, I would emphasize that the notion that braces are underwear is held today only by a very small group of eccentrics. Pay them no mind. Keeping one's jacket on is indeed a better look in almost every instance, but is usually unnecessary in the context of sport or suit coats in professional office environments regardless how one's pants are secured.
 
Amazing. Anytime I have a clothes qustion, I can always find the answer at AAAC. I recently purchased a tuxedo with brace buttons on the trousers. I wasn't sure if the proper call was cumberbund or vest with braces. It has a shawl collar, so I think the cumberbund is the right choice for me. Any thoughts on the number of pleats on a cumberbund? Black or white pocket square? Thanks for the excellent information and entertaining reading.
 
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