Andy’s Analysis – Baroni Suits

[Andy]

After the recent and passionate post about The Wizard of Aahs (http://stores.ebay.com/The-Wizard-of-Aahs/) Baroni suits in addition to my efforts to do more “consumer” reports, I received from Jeff two Baroni suits, one Matteo di Rota shirt and one necktie for review.

The Baroni suits retail for $495 (and as low as $279 at the Wizard of Aahs e-bay store) with a reported MSRP (Suggested retail) of $795 to $1195. One Baroni is made in Italy and the other in China.

Both use S-150 fabric (which had a nice hand!), feature excess fabric for alterations, and are yarn dyed for consistency.

Lapels offer pick stitching, which could be by hand but more likely by machine. At this price point just having the pick stitching is a nice touch!

Sleeves have four non-working buttons with sewn faux buttonholes.

Trousers have 3 button closure with tab “in the fashion of” Zanella.

The lapels of both suits have a non opening Key Hole buttonhole. Recent Forum discussions have pointed out that a key hole buttonhole can be a sign of lower quality on a suit/sport jacket lapel. When mass producing a garment for sale at a low price point, it does not make sense to make two kinds of buttonholes, and thus raise the cost to produce the garment.

A round or rounded end button hole is curved at one end, and are the type of button holes that are used for the lapel buttonhole on most suits and sport jackets, since the function of pulling lapels across the front of you and buttoning them as protection against weather has ceased to be a practical function. The lapel buttonhole has been converted to a decorative function, or a place to put a flower.

I don’t think this would be noticed except in the highest sartorial levels (if you own one of these suits and attend an Ask Andy event you might want to wear your Oxxford suit instead!)

To me it’s not that noticeable to the average person and not that big a deal at this price point. Plus we’ve seen it as a designer statement on some very high end suits. It’s something that I could live with for a good suit value at $300!

The differences between the Asian and Italian Baroni:

Asian Baroni:

This suit was a nice looking charcoal pinstripe and the pinstripes were very subtle and projected an impression of red, pink or burgundy.

There are approximately 75-100 assembly plants in China and only three are regarded as top quality. The factory where the Baroni suit is assembled is the one of the three that is co-owned by a very famous Italian suit maker and the Chinese.

The Interfacing (also called Canvas or Interlining) is a full floating canvas. Full canvas describes a suit jacket that has a canvas interlining in the entire front of the jacket from the shoulders to the bottom hem.

Just a consumer reminder that “Floating chest pieces”are common in fused suits. An interfacing is fused over large sections of the front and then in the chest, where the most padding is needed, then a separate piece held by the shoulder and armhole seams is added. That chest piece will “float” over a fused front.

In a “canvas construction”, the canvas will float over the natural, unfused fabric.

I can’t tell if there is some fusing or what the canvas is made of without cutting open the lining. Again at this price point I’m not sure that it matters that much.

Baroni tells me that the Half Canvas Floating chest piece (Chinese production) has NO fusing at all!!

Italian Baroni:

The “Italian” suit (G.B. Baroni uomo) was a charcoal windowpane. The tag said “Made in Italy” The patterns were lined up nicely.

The Interfacing (also Canvas or Interlining) is a half floating canvas with no fusing. Half canvas describes a suit jacket that has only a chest piece (from shoulders to bottom of the rib cage).

For a southern climate I actually like the half canvas approach!

An Opinion:

I would not begin to compare these suits toOxxford, Brioni, Savile row bespoke, or any bespoke.

If you already own such a “high end” suit, you’re not the market for which these suits were designed. And I think Jeff of the Wizard of Aah’s knows that very well.

BUT if you’re used to suits from Macy’s or Men’s Warehouse, you’re going to love one of these suits plus you’ll get more value than a typical warehouse or department store suit for about the same price or less.

The Baroni suits are better constructed that the average Warehouse/Department store suit which can sell for between $695-$895 and often offers lesser quality fabric, cheap fused construction and no tailoring details like pick stitching. Some Department store suits don’t even offer the faux button holes on the sleeves like the Baroni has!

The secret is, as with any suit, the fit. If you’re successful in getting your alterations tailor to fit you well in a Baroni it will look good.

Many jobs require a suit, but if you’re not at the highest level of your company or appearing in the Senate or before the supreme court you probably are not going to invest in $3000 suits. Baroni offers the man in this situation a well constructed suit for a good value.

When I worked in occupational safety I wore a suit occasionally (especially in the early days), but in that suit I often was inspecting machine shops, chemical labs, etc. I wanted to look professional, but I sure didn’t want to invest much in a suit that had an exposure to that kind of potential damage.

My really good suits I reserved for social events not work! But that was just the type of environment I worked in. If that kind of situation applies to some of you then you would be pleased with Baroni suits.

The Matteo di Rota shirt is made in Italy with a MSRP listing at $310, but sells for $110 on the Wizard of Aah’s website! It’s 100% Italian cotton which has a very excellent hand!

It features single needle tailoring with silk thread, the buttons are double thick mother of pearl, a French placketcovers the front buttons (nice touch), and it has edge stitching around the collar.

My one negative with the shirt is the lack of a split yoke, but some of the more expensive Italian shirt makers don’t do split yokes so it’s more a personal matter.

The Necktie is well constructed of quality hand woven silk. The tipping is silk but not self fabric and there are two keepers, a self fabric and a label keeper.

[LordLong]

Where can I buy those wholesale?

[rnoldh]

Great review Andy! Thanks, we've been waiting for it.


If it is not already, shoudn't this review be on the Sales Forum where more members will probably see it.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by rnoldh

Great review Andy! Thanks, we've been waiting for it.


If it is not already, shoudn't this review be on the Sales Forum where more members will probably see it.

rnoldh:

Did you mean the Fashion Forum? I debated about where to put it, but my last Analysis was here. What do you think?

[Wayfarer]

Thanks for a balanced and contextual review. I have to admit that the previous thread had me quite interested in those suits as to quality vs. price point. You certainly gave good information for a purchasing decision within the context of finer mens' wear.

Regards

P.S. You never know, I might pick one up from Jeff if I can land it real cheap just for those occasions where you want a suit but are afraid it might come to some harm.

[rnoldh]

Originally Posted by Andy

rnoldh:

Did you mean the Fashion Forum? I debated about where to put it, but my last Analysis was here. What do you think?

Hi, Yes, I meant the Fashion Forum. I think more members would see itt, and there's a lot of interest.

See what some of the moderators and stalwarts think.

Thanks and Regards,
rnoldh

[abc123]

Andy,

Thanks for the great review! As a student who is preparing his wardrobe for the workplace in a few years, I am always on the lookout for high quility clothes at good prices. I understand that these suits certainly aren't of Oxxford or Brioni quility, but what would you compare them to? Comprable to a half canvassed southwick or something of similar quality? Also, if so desired, do they do a nice 2.5 roll if the top button is unbuttoned? Many thanks in advance.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by abc123

Andy,

Thanks for the great review! As a student who is preparing his wardrobe for the workplace in a few years, I am always on the lookout for high quility clothes at good prices. I understand that these suits certainly aren't of Oxxford or Brioni quility, but what would you compare them to? Comprable to a half canvassed southwick or something of similar quality? Also, if so desired, do they do a nice 2.5 roll if the top button is unbuttoned? Many thanks in advance.

abc123:

They roll to the top button if you just button the middle button.

rnoldh: Good suggestion. I put up a post about this post and locked it so all comments will be here!

[lichMD]

Originally Posted by Andy

abc123:

They roll to the top button if you just button the middle button.

rnoldh: Good suggestion. I put up a post about this post and locked it so all comments will be here!

Thanks Andy.
A very informative and useful analysis.
Linking to the Fashion forum was a great idea.
I received a call from my younger brother about this maker (starting his career as a lawyer) and now I can give him some real info!
Thanks

[jazzy1]

The Matteo di Rota shirt is made in Italy with a MSRP listing at $310, but sells for $110 on the Wizard of Aah’s website! It’s 100% Italian cotton which has a very excellent hand!

It features single needle tailoring with silk thread, the buttons are double thick mother of pearl, a French placketcovers the front buttons (nice touch), and it has edge stitching around the collar.

My one negative with the shirt is the lack of a split yoke, but some of the more expensive Italian shirt makers don’t do split yokes so it’s more a personal matter.

Andy,

Thanks for the review. It was very helpful.

In your opinion, is the shirt worth the 110 price tag?

[harrybee]

Andy,

Brilliant analysis.

[tabasco]

Thank you, Andy for taking the time to examine, note the relevant points, and finally to share this with fora members. You are generous with your time.
I hope this may put to rest some of the more heated exchanges that occured previously.

[hreljan]

Andy,

I did not get this (maybe I just can't find it in your extensive analysis), but what is the construction of the lapels (fused or canvassed)?

[asaffi]

compare the "shape" of the suit with other known brands? kiton? brioni? canali? Note that I'm talking about the overall looking, not the construction and quality.

[Andy]

I have an update from Baroni:

They say that the Half Canvas Floating chest piece (Chinese production) has NO fusing at all!!

I will edit that into the review above!

[warfighter]

Andy, first I should disclose to the forum that I own several Baronis which I have purchased from the Wizard of Ahs.

For my career, I represent a well known defense contractor and in addition to meeting with senior officials, I also spend some time on Capitol Hill.

I always receive compliments when I wear the Baroni suits and to your point I have a great tailor.

Thanks very much for your assessment of the suits and I hope this puts to rest the somewhat emotional message traffic on both the Baroni line and Jeff at the Wizard of Ahs.

All the best.

[vwguy]

Great review Andy, but perhaps it shuld be moved to the Fashion Forum where it would get the most visibility.

Brian

[johnjack11]

I would like to get some feedback from people, would you buy one of these Baroni suits for around $300 or a Jos A Banks Signature Gold suit for around the same. Banks seems to follow the "set msrp very high and put everything on sale" business model.

I received a 60% off coupon in the mail, and I can actually try on the Banks suit before buying it, so tailoring should not be as extensive!

Thoughts?

Thank you,
Jack

[vwguy]

Originally Posted by johnjack11

I would like to get some feedback from people, would you buy one of these Baroni suits for around $300 or a Jos A Banks Signature Gold suit for around the same. Banks seems to follow the "set msrp very high and put everything on sale" business model.

I received a 60% off coupon in the mail, and I can actually try on the Banks suit before buying it, so tailoring should not be as extensive!

Thoughts?

Thank you,
Jack

You'll still have to get the pants hemmed, perhaps the waist altered and the sleeves of the jacket tailored as well. As long as you know your size and how the sizing of a suit runs there shouldn't be that much more tailoring involved versus something you can buy from a brick & mortar store.

Brian

[johnjack11]

Originally Posted by vwguy

You'll still have to get the pants hemmed, perhaps the waist altered and the sleeves of the jacket tailored as well. As long as you know your size and how the sizing of a suit runs there shouldn't be that much more tailoring involved versus something you can buy from a brick & mortar store.

Brian

I am fine with the alterations either way, I am just wondering if the Baroni quality would be much higher, or if I should try and find a used Canali on ebay!

Thanks

[cue180]

I just purchased one of the Baroni's & it rivals the quality of my Zegna. I am sure there are some differences, but not much that I can tell. I am by no means an expert though, but if you read Andy's opinion, he says that it seems to be a better choice than most of your retail men's clothing stores & I would definitely agree with that.

[JeffT]

Andy, Thank you so much for taking your time to evaluate my wares! In appreciation I would like to offer any Ask Andy member 10% off any purchase and free domestic shipping! Just mention this site and I'll treat you like family!

[Dapper Dave]

Hi Jeff,

I've been away from this site (and, regrettably, the Chicago gathering as well) but I was keen to get back and see the results of the trial. As I guessed, your stuff fared well!

I'll be in touch soon!

Regards,
Dave