JCPenney's values...

[NKOTB]

Hi all, this is my first post, so I hope it's worthy of your attention.

First off, let me say that my interests in clothing are largely guided by a value equation that goes something like this: Value= (wearings/$) x longevity of the items style x it's coordinating versatility. In short, although I admire the craftsmanship of luxury goods, I tend to seek out items in the knee of the price to quality curve.

That being said. I have been seeing indications of upward movement in terms of quality for the $ @ good ol' Jaque' Penney'. To summarize, my evidence gatherings, I have seen several posts lauding the following JC Penney's items:

Stafford Executive Pima Cotton undershirts
Stafford Executive Cotton Pinpoints
Gold Toe socks
St John's Bay retro khakis (sadly discontinued)
Levi's 501 jeans
Izod

Then there's impending Spring '08 "upmarket" line called American Living.

And according to another member, whom if I recall was formerly with Brooks Brothers, JC Penney's has: "one of the strictest quality codes in the business. In my past life, if a factory was approved by JCP, we didn't bother checking it out. And if I told you the number of people, from the design team to the quality team that are responsible for our products. . .it would floor you."

All that being said, I think it would be interesting to have thread where we shared our experiences, good and otherwise, with their evolving services and brands.

To start, they have begun offering a Stafford executive MTM shirt and trouser service. I have looked everywhere for some qualitative comments on this service and the resultant products. By the looks of it, it' slotted in price below Land's End's MTM stuff, offering a narrower, albeit fundamental set of fabrics and they ask a similar set of sizing questions. So with that said... do we have a challenger in the mtm space to good ol' LE?

Thanks for your thoughts and contributions to my JC Penney's mavenry,

David

[SilkCity]

Very fine quality for the (socks, underwear) basics, and good brand-name deals (esp. running shoes and shorts) and superb on-line service.

Saves me much $$$ for Italian and English bespoke plunges.

Best,
SC

[Jolly Roger]

I have a couple of the Stafford Executive shirts. Not bad overall...

[Cruiser]

I purchase regularly from JCP. Their online service and return policy are top notch in my opinion.

Having said that, I am selective in what I buy from JCP. For example, I don't care for their shirts and don't buy them. I much prefer Lands End shirts. But I do have two Stafford suits, a Stafford Executive Navy blazer, and a Stafford corduroy sport coat that all serve me well. I also like Docker's khaki pants and they are readily available at JCP. I hope they expand and improve their offerings in which case I will buy even more from them.

[Country Irish]

I've been a regular shopper there for years. I find the shirts acceptable but not a challenge for the higher end (or higher priced) competition. Their t-shirts are the best,their socks are good but I am currently on an Alpaca sock binge so needless to say Penneys is out of luck with that.
Unfortunately we are headed into winter and having received flyers from Penneys and Lands End today, there is not even a chance that Penneys can be viewed on the same scale as Lands End. LE has winter wear that is good quality and reasonably priced. Most important it does what it is supposed to do -keep you dry and warm.
Thus we have to wait until spring to see if Penneys goes from good to great in its midrange offerings. I do still like them for the basics anytime.

[Jolly Roger]

Sadly, the Stafford suits sport more shoulder padding than a linebacker.

[forsbergacct2000]

I have some things from Penney's. I admit to this at the risk of scorn from a former poster.

[NKOTB]

well said my kindred spirits... I would also add the Stafford Brogue to the list... for all intensive purposes a Florshiem Imperial Kenmoor for half the cost. Not to say you'll be at the fashion avante guarde, but one must have a stand-in full wing until the real shell's are in the closet.

Be ye not ashamed of criticism from others with differing priorities. After all, it's not easy, and sometimes unadvisable to fund all interests equally or concurrently. I guess that's the reason the "Millionaire Next Door" usually drives a F-150 (and probably goes to Penney's too)

I would add the other items listed to the OP, but alas, I am too new to have such editorial priviledge.

As to the MTM question, I saw that some of you had bought the Stafford Executive RTW shirts, but still no word on their competing MTM service... I will have to say, that in respect to their MTM service, the jury on Land's End's comparability is still out... But as we have noted, their customer service and return policy is likely on par with LE...

I do agree with the shoulder padding comment on the blazers/suits... to much for my sloping shoulders too.

I think a re-con is in order... I'm off to Jaque' Penne's!!

[NKOTB]

re-con complete... no shirts purchased, but I my wife found a Stafford Seersucker sport coat, regularly $140, marked down to

$4.97

And yes, the shoulder's were padded a little more than I like, but maybe because it was a casual cotton cut, it didn't seem sooo bad... or maybe since it was under 5 bucks I just couldn't walk away without it... Muahahahahaha!!!.

[Greggers]

Hi everybody. My name's Greg, and I'm a real live suit department sales associate at JC Penneys. That's right, I'm the guy who comes up to you when you're just looking and tries to suck you into my cunning spiderweb of lies, manipulating you with phrases like "Hello sir, are you finding everything okay?" or "If you need any help or have any questions, just let me know." From then on, it's just a matter of time before I sell you the overpriced, ill-fitting suit of my choosing!


Obey me! I command you! Those shoulders aren't too wide! They're supposed to hang over your natural shoulder by three inches!

Seriously, I have two things to tell y'all:

1. Penneys is having a crazy clearance in the suit departments right now. Not only are we getting rid of our summer stock, like NKOTB's $4.97 seersucker sportcoat, but about a week ago, we put most of our Stafford Executive nested suits (not to mention more than a few Stafford Ease suits) on the clearance rack too. (I'm not entirely sure why; we might be making room for the Ralph Lauren American Living stuff, but they're not coming until next year.)

Many of these Executives are Super 100s. I know most of you are saavy enough not to be swayed by that fact alone (or at all), but the three button blacks and charcoals really are light as a feather, and for the price, ($150 or less) I think they're a pretty damned good deal. Other Executives are blended with silk or cashmere, and have a bit more personality (read: louder patterns), and some are woven with fabric from Vitale Barberis Canonico.

Stafford Execs, like most Stafford right now, fit on the roomy side, with the exception of the Italian wool ones which, as you might imagine, fit a little more on the Italian side (beefed up shoulders, and a bit more fitted through the torso). Most of our stores offer some kind of tailoring service, including waist supression if you need some shaping on the jacket.

At the risk of jeopardizing my sales ranking in the company*, let me suggest that some of you go to your local JCP and check what they've got. See how the jackets hang, see how the pants lay. Sure, they may not be everybody's cup of tea, and goodness knows we may not even have your size (they're clearance, after all), but I assure you, what we do have is free to try on. Really.

Plus, as NKOTB discovered, we really are practically giving the summer sportcoats away. I don't know about the other stores, but we still have a healthy supply of classic seersucker sportcoats. They're so inexepensive that you could wear it to paint the friggin house. And they're not bad sportcoats either!

2. Not the face. Please, not the face.



*There's always a chance you might be coming into my store. An incredibly small chance, but hey.

[hockeyinsider]

re-con complete... no shirts purchased, but I my wife found a Stafford Seersucker sport coat, regularly $140, marked down to

$4.97

And yes, the shoulder's were padded a little more than I like, but maybe because it was a casual cotton cut, it didn't seem sooo bad... or maybe since it was under 5 bucks I just couldn't walk away without it... Muahahahahaha!!!.

I bought the same jacket for $24 or something a couple weeks ago. I even posted about it on here.

[eagle2250]

Greggers: Welcome to the forum and thanks for the "inside" information on the J C Penny sale offerings! Could you turn up the heat and bring back those "Iconic" khakis for us?

NKOTB: I've got two hanging in the closet but, at $4.97 a pop, I just might have to pick up another seersucker jacket at the local store!

[Cruiser]

There is a gentleman who I encounter on a fairly regular basis and he is always in a suit. Although I don't normally pay much attention to the clothing that other men have on (I will admit to looking at the women), I have always noted how nice this fellow looks. He is very conservative and nothing in particlar stands out other than the fact that he is always very distinguished looking. He always wears a white pocket square and gold cuff links.

Last time I saw him I asked him what brand suits he wears and he just laughed and said that they all come from J C Penney. Turns out he really has no particular interest in clothes and is just trying to look presentable since he is a fairly high level political appointee in State government and feels that he represents the governor.

I am convinced that one can look very nice whether your clothes come from a custom tailor or J C Penney. I'm not saying that they are the same, they aren't; but I do believe that it is possible to please the sartorial gods wearing clothing from a store like JCP. It's more about having your own style and how you wear your clothing than it is about brand name.

[Jolly Roger]

Yeah, I know quite a few bankers and businessmen here in the sticks who actually look pretty well turned-out in suits from JC Penny, but I just feel far too conspicuous in those shoulder pads.

My shoulders are broad and square anyway. I simply don't need any padding, and when it's there I feel ridiculous. It'd sap my sartorial confidence, so I just can't bring myself to do it.

[VS]

If your female friends need plain, simple trousers, I love the Marilyn fit Worthington ones from JC Penney.

They have an expensive and simple sort of drape (the cuffed ones). Not bad at all for plain black or grey trousers, that work staple. They are indistinquishable from Talbots or Ann Taylor pants which cost three times as much.

[StevenRocks]

Yeah, I know quite a few bankers and businessmen here in the sticks who actually look pretty well turned-out in suits from JC Penny, but I just feel far too conspicuous in those shoulder pads.

My shoulders are broad and square anyway. I simply don't need any padding, and when it's there I feel ridiculous. It'd sap my sartorial confidence, so I just can't bring myself to do it.

The shoulders are well padded, but they're alterable if you choose. I wouldn't let that stop me from getting a good deal.

[NKOTB]

This is getting good...

VS, Thanks for chiming in for the ladies... I just don't spend any time over there, but this thread is by all means co-ed(ucational).

To the alterations question... Let's say you bought a Stafford® Executive Premium Wool Two-Button Suit, listed on-line for $199. And you could apply some additional current sale coupons, say an additional 15-20%, you'd be out $160 for a wool/silk blend, center vent suit.

And then, let's say I took this to a tailor like Mario Bosco and had him do the pants and jacket, including sides and shoulders if needed for $75-100 max, you'd be all-in for $250ish...

What would be a better value within a $100's? From STP, only Bill Blass, Lauren and Arnold Brant come close (all $200 to $250 without alterations)... and these names have faired worse in their forum commentaries than the affore-mentioned Stafford® Executive. What would be the next knee in the value curve by your estimation, this side of e-bay? Just a thought for pondering...

DD