Ladies' Knee Socks (also known as "long socks")

[The Wife]

I wonder why it is so rare to find knee socks for ladies. I used to stock up on Men's knee socks in Bermuda, at the English Sports Shop. They were well-made woollen ones from Canada, available in many colours. Then, not wishing to go back to the island to buy socks, I ordered some from the Trimingham's of Bermuda website. They were Pantherellas, and so thin that upon first wear they developed holes. I mean, to pull them up was to have one's fingers stick right through them. I still have a huge rotation of the things, holes notwithstanding, because some of the holes are at the top where they can be folded. I did find some knee socks for ladies in Canada a few months ago, but they are a blend of synthetic fibres and really tight at the top. Luckily, I still have several pairs of the fine quality ones acquired at the English Sports Shop in Southampton. The Pantherellas are but a thin lining at the bottom of my sock drawer, and amount to what I call disposable units. Bridgedales, though beautifully done and of heathered wool, I can only wear in winter. Who is capable, I wonder, of making a comfortable woolen knee-sock for women?

[Jill]

Dunno. But as soon as you find one, let me know. I typically end up buying the knee-highs which are just textured nylons. But as far as finding a well-made, but feminine knee-hi to wear with trousers, I can't help you. I had the same experience with my Pantharellas. Maybe I was just too rough with them. Or maybe I need to use little white Easter Sunday gloves when donning them, like my mother used to do!

[The Wife]

I don't wear trousers unless I am on a horse. I am an oddball who sometimes wears knee-socks with long skirts and at tennis. Therefore, they show. Also, the foot feels nicer than in nylon. Otherwise I would wear the nylon things called "trouser socks" for women, which one can find in most shops. It's nice to know another woman who wants good knee-length socks, Jill. When I wear dress-shoes, of course, I wear nylon stockings.

Nice suggestion about wearing the gloves to don the chintzy, ribbed-knit Pantherellas. If my finger is going to go through that fabric, it may as well go in style!

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Maybe I was just too rough with them.

You were.

Nice suggestion about wearing the gloves to don the chintzy, ribbed-knit Pantherellas. If my finger is going to go through that fabric, it may as well go in style!

Not "chintzy". Fine sockmakers struggle for years to make men's dress socks that fine. For women, until recently, they've never before existed.

My aging feet may not be as pretty as yours, ladies, but I may be able to let you in on a few secrets about untrafine socks.

Pantherella has made ladies socks now for just the past 9-10 months. They are, all punniness aside, just getting their feet wet. Many changes have been made, and many are on the way. Here are a few:

The first women's socks were mid-calf cashmere. They were constructed exactly the same as the men's cashmere; just shorter and smaller. They are extremely soft, exquisitely "cushiony", and just as delicate as the men's. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel. Needless to say, cashmere ain't the world's most durable sock.

The second round, which we premiered at the Collection of Sartorial Excellence, consisted of two different weights. The first was what men would call as fine dress sock. It was a 5x3 rib (about 3/16" ribs) mid-calf thin cotton lisle sock in a range of plain colors, also available in knee length in black only. Very thin and delicate in comparison to thicker, lower quality socks. It has no cushioning properties and is made of about 30% ultrafine nylon/70% cotton. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.
The second sock was what is known as "Soft Cotton Casual". This was available in only a couple of pleasant argyle patterns IIRC. "Soft Cotton" is much thicker - not quite like a sport sock but close - and as the name would imply, very soft and cushiony. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

Now you know what was. What's coming? This Fall, we shall debut the first of the women's superfine merino wool "dress" socks. Very slightly thicker than the cotton dress, the superfine merino (70% merino/30% superfine nylon) has a bit more warmth and cushion. This time, they will be available in both mid-calf as well as knee-length. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

But wait - there's more. Much more. We shall also have cashmere in both lengths as well as a small selection of cableknit thigh-highs! There are others in the new women's collection, but let me keep a bit back for debut day. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

In addition, we're introducing a new line of women's socks by Marcoliani of Italy. Extremely colorful and wonderful designs, these must be seen. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

Finally, I hope you've been getting the drift: Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

You may not be used to the top quality of socks. I have Pantherellas which are ten years old and still just fine. Wash them warm or hot just one time ... or dry them with heat ... and you may as well just throw them in the trash. Superfine socks are not meant to be washed in anything but cold water (a bit of powered Original Tide is fine) and should absolutely never be dried.

The Wife: PM your address and I'll send you a pair as soon as the Fall shipment arrives. Jill: I already have your number in my little Black Book and shall send a pair southward upon arrival! You'll both instantly see what I mean.

[Jill]

Thanks, Alex. That's very gracious of you to offer. But the pair I ripped weren't the ones I got from you at Sartorial Excellence. Those have been just fab. So don't feel obligated!

In any case, thank you. I look forward to checking out the new selection.

[The Wife]

You were.

Not "chintzy". Fine sockmakers struggle for years to make men's dress socks that fine. For women, until recently, they've never before existed.

My aging feet may not be as pretty as yours, ladies, but I may be able to let you in on a few secrets about untrafine socks.

Pantherella has made ladies socks now for just the past 9-10 months. They are, all punniness aside, just getting their feet wet. Many changes have been made, and many are on the way. Here are a few:

The first women's socks were mid-calf cashmere. They were constructed exactly the same as the men's cashmere; just shorter and smaller. They are extremely soft, exquisitely "cushiony", and just as delicate as the men's. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel. Needless to say, cashmere ain't the world's most durable sock.

The second round, which we premiered at the Collection of Sartorial Excellence, consisted of two different weights. The first was what men would call as fine dress sock. It was a 5x3 rib (about 3/16" ribs) mid-calf thin cotton lisle sock in a range of plain colors, also available in knee length in black only. Very thin and delicate in comparison to thicker, lower quality socks. It has no cushioning properties and is made of about 30% ultrafine nylon/70% cotton. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.
The second sock was what is known as "Soft Cotton Casual". This was available in only a couple of pleasant argyle patterns IIRC. "Soft Cotton" is much thicker - not quite like a sport sock but close - and as the name would imply, very soft and cushiony. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

Now you know what was. What's coming? This Fall, we shall debut the first of the women's superfine merino wool "dress" socks. Very slightly thicker than the cotton dress, the superfine merino (70% merino/30% superfine nylon) has a bit more warmth and cushion. This time, they will be available in both mid-calf as well as knee-length. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

But wait - there's more. Much more. We shall also have cashmere in both lengths as well as a small selection of cableknit thigh-highs! There are others in the new women's collection, but let me keep a bit back for debut day. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

In addition, we're introducing a new line of women's socks by Marcoliani of Italy. Extremely colorful and wonderful designs, these must be seen. Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

Finally, I hope you've been getting the drift: Care for these is: wash cold machine gentle, dry no heat either in the dryer or laid out on a terry towel.

You may not be used to the top quality of socks. I have Pantherellas which are ten years old and still just fine. Wash them warm or hot just one time ... or dry them with heat ... and you may as well just throw them in the trash. Superfine socks are not meant to be washed in anything but cold water (a bit of powered Original Tide is fine) and should absolutely never be dried.

The Wife: PM your address and I'll send you a pair as soon as the Fall shipment arrives. Jill: I already have your number in my little Black Book and shall send a pair southward upon arrival! You'll both instantly see what I mean.

Excellent post--thank you, Alex!

I am well versed in the language of high-end socks: my husband, a confirmed obsessive, has a grotesquely large collection of Rohner, Doré Doré, and Pantherella socks, and I have worn Doré Doré and Pantherella hose for over two decades. The blighted pairs that I describe above were Pantherella failures that cannot be excused, particularly considering that I aways wash our socks in cold water, by hand, and let the things air dry.

Your new line sounds very fine, indeed. I shall send you my Western address forthwith. Oh, and by the way, my husband tells me that you not only possess sound political views, but that you are among the world's three finest shirtmakers. You're all right, I'm thinking....

(Edited for accent on Doré Doré)

[Alexander Kabbaz]

I aways wash our socks in cold water, by hand, and let the things air dry.

I'll probably get strung up for chauvanism ... but that's my kinda woman! You and Joelle would get along well.

... my husband tells me that you not only possess sound political views, but that you are among the world's three finest shirtmakers.

I believe many AAAC members would argue with the former. For the latter, thank you very much. We try our best to keep economic reality out of the way of creativity's passion.

[Alexander Kabbaz]

OK, dashing damsels; lovely lassies in distress, wistfully wishing women ... as promised, the cure for Bare Naked Ladies' legs:

So ... ya got yer dress-to-kill wool knee-highs, soft sensuous cashmeres, buttery & beautiful cashmere/silks, winter weekend fairisles, momma-woulda-killed-for microstripes, magnificent multistripes, gotta-play-golf argyles, micro-mini's best company over-the-knee cables, devil-may-care top-heel-toe contrasties, super-sassy cashmere/lurex glitter socks ... and a few more I'm not ready to bring out yet. Will this hold y'all for a while?
... all by two of the best European artisanal makers, England's Pantherella and Italy's Marcoliani.

Oh! Almost forgot. Each of them is available in from three to seven not-shown colors. Doesn't it just feel like ... Christmas?

Kabbaz-Kelly Members' Club Only limited editions.

[lovemeparis]

OK, dashing damsels; lovely lassies in distress, wistfully wishing women ... as promised, the cure for Bare Naked Ladies' legs:
So ... ya got yer dress-to-kill wool knee-highs, soft sensuous cashmeres, buttery & beautiful cashmere/silks, winter weekend fairisles, momma-woulda-killed-for microstripes, magnificent multistripes, gotta-play-golf argyles, micro-mini's best company over-the-knee cables, devil-may-care top-heel-toe contrasties, super-sassy cashmere/lurex glitter socks ... and a few more I'm not ready to bring out yet. Will this hold y'all for a while?
... all by two of the best European artisanal makers, England's Pantherella and Italy's Marcoliani.

Oh! Almost forgot. Each of them is available in from three to seven not-shown colors. Doesn't it just feel like ... Christmas?

Kabbaz-Kelly Members' Club Only limited editions.

Thank you for the socks selection--they help to change shoes and locations a lot.

...from paris

[The Wife]

Mr. Kabbaz, what a fabulous selection of socks! After years of long-socks drought, and having to go to Bermuda to stock up on them, there's finally a great, reliable stockist--you and Joelle. What swell news for this knee-sock addict!

Thank you for your wonderful post!

[The Wife]

Just arrived: the Pantherella cable-knit, extra-long socks are beautiful, warm, and well-made! Your catalogue is very fine, too. Thank you and Merry Christmas, Mr. Kabbaz!

http://www.customshirt1.com/Socks_Wo...verTheKnee.htm

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Just arrived: the Pantherella cable-knit, extra-long socks are beautiful, warm, and well-made! Your catalogue is very fine, too. Thank you and Merry Christmas, Mr. Kabbaz!

http://www.customshirt1.com/Socks_Wo...verTheKnee.htm

Enjoy!

[The Wife]

Mr. Kabbaz, you will be happy to know that the long socks by Pantherella are holding up (pun unintentional yet apt) just fine through many wearings and hand-washes. As soon as I decide on two colours, I am preparing an order....

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Just thought I would bring everyone up to speed on this topic. Since this thread began, we have been able to influence both Pantherella and Marcoliani to deepen their foray into the genre of fine women's socks. Here are a few of our more recent commissions:

(Angora & Cotton)

Of course, we've also convinced them to make all the plain colors in cotton and merino in both ankle as well as knee-high lengths. Please don't hesitate to make requests for socks you would like to see made available.

[The Wife]

Mr. Kabbaz, the cable-knit socks which you offer in pumpkin, navy blue and burgundy are my favourite socks. These wool Pantherellas are the best sock investment I've ever made. As I wrote here in a different thread last month, they make great "stocking stuffers"!

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Mr. Kabbaz, the cable-knit socks which you offer in pumpkin, navy blue and burgundy are my favourite socks. These wool Pantherellas are the best sock investment I've ever made. As I wrote here in a different thread last month, they make great "stocking stuffers"!

Thank you, Jeanne. We now have them in Cream and Dark Brown as well.

[Rossini]

Any views on the durability and quality of marcoliani versus pantherella?

[The Wife]

There's a question waiting for an answer. If you ask me--as the initiator of this thread and a collector of ladies' knee-length socks--I will stick with bullet-proof Pantherella. Their socks are better than ever.

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Any views on the durability and quality of marcoliani versus pantherella?

Durability is a question I did not deal with in this thread about Marcoliani vs. Pantherella. Generally, the sock with the greater nylon content will tend to be more durable. However, that presumes the quality and heft of the natural fiber component to be roughly the same. Early indications, surprisingly - though our durability studies are nowhere near complete - are that the 80/20 Marcoliani socks tend to be less prone to traumatic damage than the 70/30 Pantherellas. There are a number of possible reasons for this which we are investigating. However, durability studies by their very nature take a great deal of time to complete and I do not expect to have an answer I can sign my name to for quite some time.

Most interestingly, I can attest after some 100+ wearings that the most durable cashmere socks I have ever encountered are the Marcoliani Cashmere & Silk blend. These, available for both men and women, have sood up to way-in-excess of 100 wearings and have only last week developed their first hole!

As for the quality question, Marcoliani is now better than Pantherella by anywhere from 112% to 121% depending upon the particular sock. Specific parameters, measurements, and detailed conclusions about the quality differences are contained in the sock comparison study linked below.

Here you will find a comparison study of Women's Pantherella vs. Women's Marcoliani and here is the article discussing the important sock characteristics.

[Rossini]

Most interestingly, I can attest after some 100+ wearings that the most durable cashmere socks I have ever encountered are the Marcoliani Cashmere & Silk blend. These, available for both men and women, have sood up to way-in-excess of 100 wearings and have only last week developed their first hole!

Well, that is interesting because while we both love the feel of a Pantherella Cashmere sock, they don't half shed clumps of fluff....

[The Wife]

Yes, as I wrote in thee initial post of this thread, those Pantherella knee-socks I bought in Bermuda (2003) from the now-defunct Trimingham's (hope you're enjoying retirement, Chief Operating Officer Hank Hubbard!) were poorly made. One pair split open the first time I put them on. I have lots of them--never quite as good as the Canadian woollen ones from the English Sports Shop in Bermuda, but. the last batch I bought didn't last! Now, I know why...Alex Kabbaz (Ask Andy moderator and top custom shirt-maker in New York) has written about What Happened to Pantherella http://www.customshirt1.com/Pantherella_Decline01.htm

I'm still crazy about the beautiful Pantherella over-the-knee cable knit woollen long socks I bought from Alex the past two years. They fold-over at the knee, and are holding up so well that I acquired two more pairs this winter.