Return of US Horse Slaughtering: A Better Shell Cordovan Supply?

**AlanC** · November 30th, 2011, 08:52

It appears that domestic horse slaughtering will resume within weeks. Currently, Horween is forced to import all of its hides. I wonder if this will result in a more plentiful supply of shells, or at least lower costs in sourcing hides.

**g.michael** · November 30th, 2011, 10:07

I saw that and wondered the same thing myself. Given the 6 month tanning process it would probably be a year or so best case before supply is impacted--but one would think it would eventually result in shorter cordovan lead times from Alden, etc.

**Epaminondas** · November 30th, 2011, 10:09

They've been slaughtering horses in the U.S. all along; it's simply that they (according to the article) haven't been slaughtered for human consumption for a number of years. I doubt that the demand for horse meat for human consumption is very high in the U.S., and I suspect, as the article states, that should a slaughterhouse attempt to start or resume butchering horses for human consumption, it will face significant opposition and their is no real domestic constituency to defend it. So, at best, it might result in a marginal increase in supply of horse hides which might improve Alden's margins, but I certainly wouldn't count on Alden changnig the annual price increases that they've had for, at least, the last 20 years........

**WouldaShoulda** · November 30th, 2011, 10:09

Article~But pro-slaughter activists say the ban had unintended consequences, including an increase in neglect and the abandonment of horses, and that they are scrambling to get a plant going — possibly in Wyoming, North Dakota, Nebraska or Missouri.

"Pro-slaughter"

Nice!!

**AlanC** · November 30th, 2011, 10:18

My understanding is that there has not been any commercial slaughtering of horses in the US for several years. That's what has led to the problem of neglected and abandoned horses, not to mention forcing Horween to import all of their hides and shells.

**127.72 MHz** · November 30th, 2011, 10:37

A possible increase in the supply of shells is one thing but in this economy the main benefit will be more steaks! :wink2:

**Epaminondas** · November 30th, 2011, 10:49

Originally Posted by AlanC

My understanding is that there has not been any commercial slaughtering of horses in the US for several years. That's what has led to the problem of neglected and abandoned horses, not to mention forcing Horween to import all of their hides and shells.

That's probably right and I'm confusing the issue. It may be that most of what goes on in the U.S. is euthanizing unwanted or old horses and then rendering them, which will produce hides in much smaller numbers and in much varying quality (i.e., sick/diseased/old horses probably have inferior hides, etc.). It would make much more sense to rely on a supplier of horse hides where they are slaughtering tens/hundreds of thousands of healthy horses for human consumption.

**dks202** · November 30th, 2011, 11:44

Originally Posted by 127.72 MHz

A possible increase in the supply of shells is one thing but in this economy the main benefit will be more steaks! :wink2:

Don't forget the "HORSE radish"......

**WouldaShoulda** · November 30th, 2011, 11:48

....glue

**vwguy** · November 30th, 2011, 16:09

I thought the same thing when I read the article, I know, I'm terrible! And I was curious what they'll do w/ the meat since no one in the US eats it?

Brian

**bd79cc** · November 30th, 2011, 16:36

I think the processed horse meat is exported to France and some other parts of Europe. But more to AlanC's point: can the shells from any horse be used to make shell cordovan? I seem to remember hearing that the shells for cordovan manufacture came from draft horses, but I haven't been able to verify this yet.

**David J. Cooper** · November 30th, 2011, 16:54

Italians have a lot of horsemeat recipes. It's sad to me to think young healthy horses would be killed just to make shoes for rich folks.

**12345Michael54321** · November 30th, 2011, 17:21

According to the article, "The last U.S. slaughterhouse that butchered horses closed in 2007 in Illinois." When this slaughterhouse closed, was the result a significant reduction in the availability of shells, and a consequent increase in price? If so, then perhaps supply will improve and prices decline. If not, then I see no reason to assume that a resumption of horse butchering for human consumption will bring about better supply and lower prices.

So, anyone recall whether cordovan prices soared, back in '07?
--
Michael

**Oldsarge** · November 30th, 2011, 18:24

My father remembered eating horsemeat during WWII and pronounced it excellent. Personally, I've never had the chance to give it a try but I will attest that zebra is excellent.

**Trip English** · November 30th, 2011, 19:11

This is undoubtedly tied to the recent reintroduction of the McRib.

**leisureclass** · November 30th, 2011, 20:24

Originally Posted by David J. Cooper

Italians have a lot of horsemeat recipes. It's sad to me to think young healthy horses would be killed just to make shoes for rich folks.

It's true, the Mrs. had some horse tartare while we were in Italy. No one even bats an eye at such things over there.

**chilton** · November 30th, 2011, 20:37

Regardless of an increase in shell supply, the end user(us) won't see a price reduction. Once a luxury good producer knows they can get a certain price they won't drop. Price stabilization plus a greater number of rare shell colors and more experimentation with styles is likely.

Unless you like horse meat you won't be getting anything cheap.

**eyedoc2180** · November 30th, 2011, 20:47

A horse is a horse, unless of course,............Welllll, I don't know, Willlll-buuuuur, if I'm too happy about this one! (Favorite episode is Mr. Ed batting against Sandy Koufax. They don't make 'em like they used to.)

**WouldaShoulda** · December 1st, 2011, 06:28

Originally Posted by David J. Cooper

Italians have a lot of horsemeat recipes. It's sad to me to think young healthy horses would be killed just to make shoes for rich folks.

I wouldn't order the veal if I wuz you!!

**WouldaShoulda** · December 1st, 2011, 06:56

Originally Posted by Trip English

This is undoubtedly tied to the recent reintroduction of the McRib.

**David J. Cooper** · December 1st, 2011, 14:20

Originally Posted by WouldaShoulda

I wouldn't order the veal if I wuz you!!

I never order veal. Eating an animal that is forced to be anemic and is killed in it's youth seems perverse to me. I also don't eat commercial chicken or quail either.

**32rollandrock** · December 1st, 2011, 14:26

I live in Illinois, land of horse slaughterers. If anyone needs me to proxy some hides...

Originally Posted by 12345Michael54321

According to the article, "The last U.S. slaughterhouse that butchered horses closed in 2007 in Illinois." When this slaughterhouse closed, was the result a significant reduction in the availability of shells, and a consequent increase in price? If so, then perhaps supply will improve and prices decline. If not, then I see no reason to assume that a resumption of horse butchering for human consumption will bring about better supply and lower prices.

So, anyone recall whether cordovan prices soared, back in '07?
--
Michael

**Epaminondas** · December 1st, 2011, 14:51

Originally Posted by David J. Cooper

I never order veal. Eating an animal that is forced to be anemic and is killed in it's youth seems perverse to me.

Veal, I believe, usually comes from male calves from dairy cows - the males are, obviously, useless for dairy and are not needed for breeding.

Better to kill them young than to let them mature and walk cool grasses, feel the sun on their faces, the soft morning dew on their flank, and let them fall in love with life only THEN to be killed - now that's cruel.

You object to commerical quail, but are OK with wild quail being hunted by dogs, and being wounded and killed by 20 and 16 gauge birdshot? Sheez.

**WouldaShoulda** · December 13th, 2011, 09:26

Closing domestic slaughterhouses also "negatively affected lower- to medium-priced horses by 8 to 21 percent," exceeding the 4% drop in horse prices caused by the economic downturn, the report found. Those unintended consequences are one reason Congress and the Obama administration quietly lifted the horse ban in November.

Renee Duncan set up Meadowbrook Animal Sanctuary and Haven in 1988 to care for horses. Slaughtering them, she said, has no place in civilized society.

"When we had horse slaughter, every horse had a value. Now, without slaughter, if a horse does not ride, or is not a pet, it has no value," said Mike Murphy, owner of Mike's Livestock Auction in Mira Loma. "Those are horses being dumped, being let go. The animal do-gooders don't think about that."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...track=lat-pick

Not a word about shoes.

**Bjorn** · December 13th, 2011, 10:16

Originally Posted by Epaminondas

Veal, I believe, usually comes from male calves from dairy cows - the males are, obviously, useless for dairy and are not needed for breeding.

Better to kill them young than to let them mature and walk cool grasses, feel the sun on their faces, the soft morning dew on their flank, and let them fall in love with life only THEN to be killed - now that's cruel.

You object to commerical quail, but are OK with wild quail being hunted by dogs, and being wounded and killed by 20 and 16 gauge birdshot? Sheez.

Animals that are killed through hunting generally lives a better (or at least freer) life (up until a point) than the ones cooped up.

That said, horse tastes good.